Where's the outrage???

[Topcat]

johnnym Wrote:
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> APny:
> Dortmund was ruined my Chrome. Chrome gutted that
> horse in the San Diego handicap and he was never
> the same.
> Arrogate repaid the favor in the the BCC, Chrome
> was all lathered up on Pegasus day thru in a
> clunker.


Sherman had serious concerns about the post in the Pegasus, and told the jock to wrap up if/when anything went amiss during the running.  Sure enough . . .

[Topcat]

TGJB Wrote:
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> That guy died young, I think motorcycle accident.
> Without looking it up, name the other great movie
> he was in.


Alan Ladd\'s last picture was the most unintentionally-funny one in which he ever appeared . . . The Carpetbaggers . . so over-the-top.   The finishing fight scene featuring Ladd and George Peppard was a direct lift from Tracy/Gable in Boom Town.   Great musical score, though.

[NormandyInvasion]

johnnym Wrote:
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> John:
> With the passion of your post I did some DD.
> Yes Baffert had 7 horses kick the bucket and a
> autopsy was given to them all.
> Findings,they all had a thyroid medication on
> board not illegal by the way and two had trace
> amounts of rat poison. Fyi the rat poison is not
> used in Cali and they determined the amount was
> not significant enough to raise any flags.
> Bottom line he was not brought up on any charges.
> Now I ask you,if you are convinced of Bafferts
> magic potion,was he on all your tix Belmont day?
> If not then who is stupid?
> Respectfully
> John

No one, including Baffert, has offered up a plausible explanation for 7 horses dropping dead in a short time frame.  A trainer may have 1 or 2 who drop dead of a heart attack over a 30 year career, if any.  7?  In a short period of time?  Each given a known medication that had no business being in their bodies?  What was the purpose of that medication?

The only plausible explanation for those 7 horses dropping dead is that they were being given a substance that killed them.  If Baffert would like to ever step up an offer another plausible explanation, then I\'ll be glad to consider it.

[Topcat]

NormandyInvasion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> johnnym Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > John:
> > With the passion of your post I did some DD.
> > Yes Baffert had 7 horses kick the bucket and a
> > autopsy was given to them all.
> > Findings,they all had a thyroid medication on
> > board not illegal by the way and two had trace
> > amounts of rat poison. Fyi the rat poison is
> not
> > used in Cali and they determined the amount was
> > not significant enough to raise any flags.
> > Bottom line he was not brought up on any
> charges.
> > Now I ask you,if you are convinced of Bafferts
> > magic potion,was he on all your tix Belmont
> day?
> > If not then who is stupid?
> > Respectfully
> > John
>
> No one, including Baffert, has offered up a
> plausible explanation for 7 horses dropping dead
> in a short time frame.  A trainer may have 1 or 2
> who drop dead of a heart attack over a 30 year
> career, if any.  7?  In a short period of time?
> Each given a known medication that had no business
> being in their bodies?  What was the purpose of
> that medication?
>
> The only plausible explanation for those 7 horses
> dropping dead is that they were being given a
> substance that killed them.  If Baffert would like
> to ever step up an offer another plausible
> explanation, then I\'ll be glad to consider it.


IIRC, the majority of the horses in question raced under the auspices of the same owner.

[jbelfior]

How does Baffert do on the grass in races of a mile or longer?

Anyone have any stats on this?


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[Tavasco]

jbelfior Wrote:
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> How does Baffert do on the grass in races of a
> mile or longer?
>
> Anyone have any stats on this?
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Joe B.


Among other things, I can\'t remember a Baffert trained turf horse. For starters I used the Equibase query feature. Last year\'s Del Mar summer stats are easy, to get beyond that some arithmetic labor will be necessary.

2016 Rank 41 10-0-1-2 $56K
2015 Rank 34 09-1-2-0 $78k
2014 Rank 47 05-0-1-1 $30k

The simple query does not differentiate between sprints & routes. The 2017 Santa Anita winter/spring meet reflects similar numbers.

His concentration on younger horses and short careers may distort.

[TheBull]

Id argue that the real stupid one is the person who lectures about horses or uses every baffert or any horse for that matter, without regard for price and the value that the propositon offers. This isnt football where no matter which team you take, you lay 110 to win 100. Thats my problem with Baffert and the other magicians. Value. Did any Baffert horse that day offer any value? You used every Baffert and Pletch in the pk5 and got back 199 bucks......Whoopdee doo. At their best, these guys are only winning up to 30% so getting Baffert at 8/5 every race is not profitable. If every Baffert horse went off 5/1, then yeah, life would be pretty easy. Therein lies the problem. In racing, markets are fairly efficient and correct themselves very quickly. Combine that with 15-20 cents of every dollar being taken off the top, and you can see why guys who juice are a real problem for people who wager serious money in this game.....whether through the windows or the ownership/breeder side like some of us (or both). And I dont think it makes any of us \"stupid\".

[johnnym]

P-Dub Wrote:
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> FP,

>
> Its the uselessness of performance figures and
> handicapping in general by horses that get
> ridiculous numbers that shouldn\'t based on
> analyzing the data.
>
> When handicapping is rendered useless because of
> what JTC pointed out, there is no game.

PDub:
I assure you I understand your point.
Point I am trying to make.
You handicap a card, say this years Oaks Derby card. As the day progresses you notice a track Bias are the performance figures useless?
Or do you adjust your handicapping to factor in the bias?

On Belmont day race two,it could be said Baffert horses were going to run good. Did anyone adjust to play this BIAS?

As a handicapper/ gambler is it my  job to play judge and jury if Baffert is tinkering in pharmaceutical training or is it my job to cash tickets.

Baffert\'s horses on Belmont day, two of them ran new tops by 2 pts unheard of?
Two more ran I believe 5 pt new tops. A head scratcher? Perhaps.
However Bayern,Arrogate and I\'m sure there are other examples of horses that Baffert has trained that has accomplished this.
Frosted last years Met Mile freaked as well did he borrow Baffert\'s vet?

Bottom line it is what it is. How you deal with it that\'s up to you.

Respectfully
John

[johnnym]

The early pick 5 paid $800 bucks.

[jbelfior]

If this is the week for handing out the \"best post in the last 2 years\" award, then I\'m nominating this one from johnnym.

As an added throw in, I personally could care less about who decides not to post here anymore. IMO, the latest complainer added little to no value anyway.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[P-Dub]

jbelfior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this is the week for handing out the \"best post
> in the last 2 years\" award, then I\'m nominating
> this one from johnnym.
>
> As an added throw in, I personally could care less
> about who decides not to post here anymore. IMO,
> the latest complainer added little to no value
> anyway.
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Joe B.

Don\'t know how long you\'ve been around here, but you\'re in the minority if you think the people who don\'t post here anymore offered little value.

[jbelfior]

Paul:
From your profile,1 day longer than you.

Wasn\'t referring to those folks. I agree there were some talented guys on here that are gone for one reason or another. Was referring to the rant that included classy language such as \"stupid\" etc.


Good Luck,
Joe B

[P-Dub]

jbelfior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul:
> From your profile,1 day longer than you.
>
> Wasn\'t referring to those folks. I agree there
> were some talented guys on here that are gone for
> one reason or another. Was referring to the rant
> that included classy language such as \"stupid\"
> etc.
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Joe B

Ok thx. Wasn\'t sure who you were referring to

It was the same day. Great minds think alike.

[TheBull]

Correct, I was quoting the 50 cent payout

[legendbets]

Something just doesn\'t add up. Baffert texted Mike the night before to ask if he had 5 winners in him. Mike responded with I used to. The problem I see is that all of the horses at least made some sense on TG numbers, but how come his best chance IMO Mor Spirit was the highest price? its like nobody believes the \"magic\". But far from shocking results.  West Coast had back races, AT was horse to beat arguably, AA may just love sprinting and his pattern while ugly could have at least suggested an untrustworthy yet forward move.  IMO if you are upset with the big jump ups that\'s one thing, but upset the horses got on a plane for Baffert and showed up that\'s another thing. I bet zero of them and only used AT and Mor Spirit in Multi race sequences.