Where's the outrage???

[APny]

I\'m really disappointed that there is silence when it comes to the performances by all of Bafferts runners Saturday.  As a horseplayer, I have never felt so cheated.  Something\'s just doesn\'t seem right. West Coast and AA ran huge tops off very weak lines.  All of a sudden, Mor Spirit becomes the next coming of Secretariat. Abel Tasman goes from Callahan to Baffert and becomes unbeatable.  These sheets are worthless if this is allowed to happen.

[Furious Pete]

I guess you\'d need some proof before going all crazy on him.

[Tavasco]

I\'ll byte.

First of all to accuse, assert, or insinuate that BB cheats by way of using PED\'s is, imo, very bad form. Being unable to explain his success is perplexing on the other hand.

To wonder what training technique or conditioning technology he utilizes is an open question brought up from time to time here but not much ink in terms of explanation.

What we\'ve all noticed, I\'m sure is BB w/o\'s are noticeably faster. Further BB doesn\'t do much on turf?

I\'ve also noted that Chad Brown, seems to train his turf runners with the idea of teaching relaxation while building endurance via regular slow works.

On the day in question, did all of his winners to so from the front end?

Edit - most all of BB\'s winners came from off the pace. However the last one from just off the pace. That c/b a function of MS.

[johnnym]

Sounds like a bad case of sour grapes to me.
Last year the fox came to Saratoga on Travers Day and went 2-0 one being Arrogate.
Personally history has a way of repeating.
What a gambler may have accomplished if you singled all the Baffert\'s in the horizontal\'s
Breeders Cup could be the Baffert show.

[rezlegal]

Putting sour grapes, name calling and sore loser issues aside, it is not unfair for a gambler to ask if  there is sometimes a tilted playing field. It isn\'t just that Baffert won ( and won and won and won)it is the numbers his horses ran. The \" improvement\" was caused by what- he feeds his horses better? he breezes them faster or longer or harder? Some of these numbers are out of the world and bear no reasonable relationship to anything any of us could predict. Is it also a coincidence several of his horses have inexplicably dropped dead while training? I do not purport to have the answer but logic dictates ( to me) that there is something more than superior training. I have always been in the camp that is suspicious of  super- trainers. In the modern history of horse racing, prior to Oscar, no trainer, not Nerud, not Laz, not Fitzsimmons and not Ben Jones, won at 25% long,short, over 90 layoff, less than 11 days etc. With the exception of Chad Brown you would be hard pressed to find one super trainer whose grass numbers approach their dirt numbers- is  it because all the  \" skill\" in the world can\'t make horse not suited for the grass run faster?  To Johnny M and Pete- I have no proof but like Tavasco I am perplexed. We should not accuse a good trainer for excellence ; nor
should we attack a frustrated gambler as being a sore loser because a horse jumps up 15-20 lengths out of the blue. I am one of the rat bastard lawyers referred to in another string and deal with a lot of allegations of fraud in my litigation practice. Fraud is really, really hard to prove.Sometimes as an attorney you don\'t have all the answers. Same on this subject- every Bronx bone in my body tells me something is wrong with some of the trainers, some of the time. It is an inexplicable part of this game.

[Furious Pete]

Don\'t disagree with anything you\'re saying, but I guess the lack of proof is the reason why there\'s no public outrage.

In the meantime;

Great cards coming up at Penn National, Charles Town and Evangeline Downs tonight - NO super-trainers in sight!!

[TGJB]

There\'s tons of outrage, and there\'s a difference between evidence and proof. We\'ve been hearing a lot about smoke and fire these days-- smoke is evidence of fire. Seeing the actual fire is proof of fire. But if you see smoke pouring out of an apartment window it\'s a pretty good idea to call the fire department.

[johnnym]

I have a hard time believing that in the sport of kings all the big time owners/trainers do not have access to all the latest and greatest supplements training techniques etc.

Yes he is a ridiculously good trainer, perhaps the G.O.A.T on the dirt.

[Mathcapper]

johnnym Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a hard time believing that in the sport of
> kings all the big time owners/trainers do not have
> access to all the latest and greatest supplements
> training techniques etc.
>
> Yes he is a ridiculously good trainer, perhaps the
> G.O.A.T on the dirt.

-- not insinuating anything here, but Jerry McKeon said the same thing about a one Oscar Barrera (coming from \'ole Harvey Pack though, so it may have been tongue in cheek):

Re: Ahem...

[jerry]

You say California has the toughest testing rules. Baffert gets crazy big jump ups when he ships out of California. What\'s the big mystery?

[Strike]

jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You say California has the toughest testing rules.
> Baffert gets crazy big jump ups when he ships out
> of California. What\'s the big mystery?


That is not fair. You have no evidence at all except speculation.

[bellsbendboy]

Perhaps nasal strips, draw reins and expensive stock melded with world class horsemanship, apparently, creates some sort of smoke?

Solid rationalization for a negative bottom line as any.  bbb

[jerry]

Whoa. Those are the same strips, reins, stock and WC horsemanship that produced 4\'s in Cali before coming east and running -4. ðŸ¤"

[jerry]

Unfair speculation? You explain it then. Why does the east coast bring out the best in BB?

[johnnym]

I believe Jerry stated he received a call from Baffert telling him about Arrogate before he blew up.Arrogate ran a -4 in Cali last year he paired. Then he paired again in Dubai. None of these tracks are close to the East.

I believe attorney\'s and I sure am not one, would call everything you are referring to as circumstantial evidence.
If he is bending the rules and has never been brought up on any charges then in my world he is not breaking any rules. If he ever gets caught well then that changes everything. Until that day occurs he is what he is the GOAT!


What gets me though is some of the sharpest minds in the game frequent this board.
I just wonder if sometimes we just get too cute in trying to beat him instead of accepting the fact that he is Baffert.

I learned my lesson.

Lets not forget last years TG Derby pick is just starting to get going as well.

Good Luck
John