Allday Music

[Street Sense]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Street Sense Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Richie, remember Favorite Trick and Countess
> > Diana?  Campaigning the champion 2yo filly and
> > colt in a year is a feat worthy of D Wayne, yet
> > here it was being accomplished by Patrick Byrne
> > (who?).  Who was the vet?  Allday.  Shortly
> after,
> > another one of Byrne\'s horses got a positive
> and
> > never has another trainer taken such a fall
> from
> > grace.  Both owners of Favorite Trick and
> Countess
> > Diana moved their horses to other trainers.
> That
> > just doesn\'t happen when a trainer won you an
> > Eclipse and apparently did such a good job for
> > you.  Rumor was that Allday set up Byrne to get
> > that positive.
> >
> > At some point one has to come to the
> realization
> > that where there\'s so much smoke there must be
> > some fire.
>
> Street:
>
> Even if I had forgotten, a certain denizen of the
> Big Top (I am not talking TG
> #s here) would never let us forget, as the Byrne/
> Allday alliance is almost as
> essential to CTC\'s mantra as is the Dead Pletcher
> Trio (which might be a good
> name for a punk/bluegrass band) and the nebulous
> connection between Tour de
> France cyclists and performance equines. Chuckles
> is still trying to determine
> if the Grassy Knoll was firm or yielding that day
> almost exactly 45 years ago.
>
> Street you were going along pretty strong,
> presenting a compelling case,even
> though your evidence was a bit aged, 10 years to
> be exact. Unfortunately you
> finish like a claimer in need of a myectomy when
> your last sentence in the first
> paragraph begins with the word \"Rumor\".
>
> I refer you to NCT\'s post where the Jesuit
> jurisprude (and my choice to cover
> himself in glory in Vegas in 2008) opines that
> \"Prosecution by circumstantial
> evidence is dangerous to our civil liberties\".
> Learned Hand, Benjamin Cardozo,
> or William O. Douglas may have been able to say it
> better, but it would have
> taken them 5 pages and the help of a law clerk.
>
> Further Affiant Saith Naught.


No fair for criticizing me for an attempt at responsibility.  Unless it\'s proven, it\'s a rumor, so I state it as such.  But let me point out that circumstantial evidence can indeed be used to convict a person.  There\'s a point that can be crossed where a reasonable person can no longer believe that it\'s just an unfortunate series of coincidences.

And it\'s not my fault that it\'s just a rumor.  Put me in charge of it and I\'ll make damn sure a race is run clean, it\'s hardly rocket science here.  Unfortunately, I\'m not in charge of it and instead we get to watch men pay $10 million for a single mare and hear how racing just can\'t find the money to clean things up.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Got to give Pat some Kudo\'s to have a nice knowledgable wife, such as Jill. And she not half bad handicapper either.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

Richie-bee....Thanks for the Kudos. Got to pardon the grammar at that time of the evening, after a bourbon or two.. What we need to do is have a coming out party for the Clown. we need to see who he is without the makeup. Maybe we could arrange the said meeting at a race track near you....Oh that\'s right, there may not be one, and maybe no OTB\'s either. What would Manhattan be like without a slimy OTB every couple of blocks or so......

On another subject, this Cushion track plays pretty honest, don\'t you think?

NC Tony

p s Thank goodness we have a spell check....

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Richie, just for the record, I do not rush to conspiracies nor do I believe that Oswald had any help on November 22, 1963, despite a popular culture that wants to cultivate a theory that taking down a President was too big a job for any one man to do. The Grassy Knoll has absolutely no relevance to me.

I read what Street Sense wrote and though I\'m not going to research it, I don\'t remember it his way. What I remember is that Byrne jumped stables to be Stronach\'s private trainer at Adena, giving up on his undefeated, 2YO champion and horse of the year Derby prospect. Somehow, even with Stronach stock, Byrne could not get the job done and was replaced before very long. Another question for Doc Allday is \"Did he follow Byrne over to Adena Springs and treat horses there?\" I can tell you the answer. I\'m confident I know the answer without even having to ask the question and my confidence has nothing to do with consipiracies nor prior knowledge. Byrnes tandem of lightning in a bottle 2YO champions didn\'t fair well after his departure and have joined the premature Plecher dead. All these horses have something in common besides dying prematurely and that commonality is of course that they were treated with Allday\'s Magic Bullet.

Irwin and Hooper are in a position to hasten the end. They don\'t have the integrity to get the ball rolling faster though, but if I had 10 minutes with Plecher or Allday we\'d accelerate the process thats already begun.

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Street Sense Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Richie, remember Favorite Trick and Countess
> > Diana?  Campaigning the champion 2yo filly and
> > colt in a year is a feat worthy of D Wayne, yet
> > here it was being accomplished by Patrick Byrne
> > (who?).  Who was the vet?  Allday.  Shortly
> after,
> > another one of Byrne\'s horses got a positive
> and
> > never has another trainer taken such a fall
> from
> > grace.  Both owners of Favorite Trick and
> Countess
> > Diana moved their horses to other trainers.
> That
> > just doesn\'t happen when a trainer won you an
> > Eclipse and apparently did such a good job for
> > you.  Rumor was that Allday set up Byrne to get
> > that positive.
> >
> > At some point one has to come to the
> realization
> > that where there\'s so much smoke there must be
> > some fire.
>
> Street:
>
> Even if I had forgotten, a certain denizen of the
> Big Top (I am not talking TG
> #s here) would never let us forget, as the Byrne/
> Allday alliance is almost as
> essential to CTC\'s mantra as is the Dead Pletcher
> Trio (which might be a good
> name for a punk/bluegrass band) and the nebulous
> connection between Tour de
> France cyclists and performance equines. Chuckles
> is still trying to determine
> if the Grassy Knoll was firm or yielding that day
> almost exactly 45 years ago.
>
> Street you were going along pretty strong,
> presenting a compelling case,even
> though your evidence was a bit aged, 10 years to
> be exact. Unfortunately you
> finish like a claimer in need of a myectomy when
> your last sentence in the first
> paragraph begins with the word \"Rumor\".
>
> I refer you to NCT\'s post where the Jesuit
> jurisprude (and my choice to cover
> himself in glory in Vegas in 2008) opines that
> \"Prosecution by circumstantial
> evidence is dangerous to our civil liberties\".
> Learned Hand, Benjamin Cardozo,
> or William O. Douglas may have been able to say it
> better, but it would have
> taken them 5 pages and the help of a law clerk.
>
> Further Affiant Saith Naught.

[richiebee]

Street:

I\'d like to think I was having a little fun with your choice of words. If you
had buried the \"rumor\" sentence somewhere in the paragraph, rather than
finishing with it, you would have delivered a more convincing package.

Responsibility. Do you mean attaching responsibility for past deeds? A lot of
what I read here about Allday revolves around events of 5 and 10 years ago.
I just think its more logical to try to create awareness of current day cheaters
and cheating than it is to try to hang someone for something which may or may
not have happened 10 years ago.

I know one of the most quoted lines ever spoken has something to do with folks
ignoring history. But aren\'t there enough problems in racing today and tomorrow?
How many race results THIS WEEKEND will be chemically altered?

This past BC featured 11 races. Four of these races were won by guys named
Asmussen, Biancone, Dutrow, and O\'Neill, who have cumulatively spent YEARS in
Racing\'s equivalent of the \"sin bin\".

Kentucky has always had a rogue vet in residence. It used to be Doc Al-ex, now
it seems to be Doc All-day.

[richiebee]

NCT:

You may not have noticed when you were up here hanging out with Phil Collins,
but a lot of those slimy OTBs are gone. Thankfully the one near my office in Manhattan remains.

No problems with the cushion, but what\'s up with the small fields?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

When the Justice Department was ethically run, they didn\'t go after the small time dealer or the strong arm robber. They didn\'t try to vet State Attorneys to fix elections, they didn\'t have to hide their emails. They went to the very top to take down the head of the rotting fish, set an example and send a message to those profiting from crime.

If the Justice Department does gravitate to this board, there is enough wrongdoing at the highest levels of horseracing for some old fashioned Department of Justice righteous work.

If a society is going to allow gambling, that gambling needs to be done upon a playing field that is level for all. Individuals cannot manipulate that field to make it their personal pot o\' gold at the expense of others playing by the rules. If Braulio Baeza can be investigated and indicted as clerk of the scales for unclear and marginal weight variances without any proof of personal profit or wrongdoing surely men like Pletcher and Allday can be investigated by the Feds for utilizing illegal substance to fix races for their own personal gain.

You don\'t ignore a problem merely because its at the top. At least they didn\'t use to.


sighthound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chuckles wrote:
> >>>\"Plech and Allday have defied the substance
> regulations. I\'ve gone over the >>>evidence.\"
>
> Unfortunately, \"If I repeat it publically often
> enough, it will become true\", isn\'t really factual
> evidence.
>
> BTW, did anybody hear Part III, where Maggie Moss
> defended Dutrow on ATR?  That is worth a listen.
>
> I am amazed that the top repeat offender trainers
> in this country barely get a mention by Chuckles
> (and others on this board), consumed as he is with
> discrediting his two favorite whipping boys.

[cubfan0316]

IF IT SO IMPORTANT TO GET BONDS, WHY DONT THE FEDS GET INVOLVED WITH THIS HORSE RACING B.S.

[cubfan0316]

has dutrow been claiming horses lately for small amounts and running them back in 3-4 days for higher  tags and winning>?

[Silver Charm]

All the focus here seems to be on Allday and a little on Dutrow.

Teflon Todd continues to dust off his sleeves and then wash his hands.

Where is Tom Dewey when you need him??

[jma11473]

Are you kidding? Have you missed the last 7000 CTC posts?

The focus was on Allday/Dutrow because of Allday\'s recent radio show appearance, but I don\'t think anyone \"forgot\" about Pletcher\'s runs of success. They\'ve been debated to death (ugh, awful choice of words).

[cubfan0316]

i think your missing the point.the  feds get involved with all sport cheating, lets get them involved in horse racing.get the grand jury and find all-day in contempt. make him admit his guilt.

[Silver Charm]

>get the grand jury and find all-day in contempt

Or Pletcher. Simple question.

\"Are you aware of any situations where your horses received performance enhancing drugs?\"

If he says no and is later proven to have lied he joins Barry (not Irwin) in his cell.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

You can\'t drug in Baseball.

You can\'t drug in Cycling.

You can\'t drug in Football.

With all the potential for abuse with money legally wagered. With all of the shenanigans that can develop when insiders manipulate the game to their benefit and to the detriment of others, with all the appendant humane treatment of a noble beast considerations, considering the case of Michael Vick theres the case of Patrick Biacone involving Cobra Venom, why is it that the Feds have turned a blind eye and allowed drugs to be part of the sport of horse racing?

Where are they?

It wouldn\'t take many questions to get to the bottom of it. Pletcher and Allday can lie to us, but lying to the Feds is another matter entirely,unless you\'re Scooter Libby and have a Presidential \"Get Out of Jail Free\" card.

By the way Jerry, your spell check is not very smart. It doesn\'t think \"appendant\" is a word.

The Feds won\'t get very far asking this Board\'s Barry to ask or answer a question.

Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >get the grand jury and find all-day in contempt
>
> Or Pletcher. Simple question.
>
> \"Are you aware of any situations where your horses
> received performance enhancing drugs?\"
>
> If he says no and is later proven to have lied he
> joins Barry (not Irwin) in his cell.

[marcus]

Personally - I would take a more \"liberal\" approach and just ban and/or fine rule breakers appropriately    - no jail . There are some very good things being said here by everyone  on this thread , hopefully the dialogue will continue to have an impact and continue to evolve  ...

 
Attempting to handicap the \"short list of problems for the game\"  numbers One through Seven is a kind of exercise in values clarification for me -  without enormous breadth and scope of vision .  The notion that \"problems\" exist which need \"re-mediating\" has made some strides recently and is a very positive sign IMO - perhaps even a starting point  ...

1:   Market Brand - Current national main stream trends from my own vantage point go back too these issues : The \"BC P-6 Fix\" Scandal , The \"Die Off\" , \"Barbaro\" / \"George Washington\"  . That nice fellow at Ellis who recently brought that horse back out of retirement for the kids is a good news story .  

2: Sanctioning - How did it use to work ...
 
3: Internet - This is a transitional phase - who knows whats on the other side .

4: Breeding - Guessing the Market will shake-out soon .

5: Deference -  Impose \"Racing\" or \"Usage\" fee\'s - everyone pays .

6: Tariff Reform - I\'m seeing prohibitive factors on a larger scale  similar to that of the 1824 & 2000 elections .

7: Cheating -  Elevate the status of these \"Random\" Searches  .

In accessing the top problems -IMO , one must evaluate the top relative successes  as well  ...