Allday Music

[sighthound]

In other words - Chuckles ain\'t got nuthin\'.

And he sure as heck doesn\'t want Allday and Pletcher to know who he is.

Allday has publically clearly stated he has never done anything that was illegal (admitting he has milkshaked horses when it was legal).

So your list of questions, Chuckles, should probably have basis in factual information YOU have that directly contradicts his contention.

You don\'t have crap, do you.

[Barry Irwin]

The attorney is mine.

The cop would be there to protect you from getting your ass kicked.

Chuck, you are a wimp.

You wanted 10 minutes to confront these guys and I offered to give it to you.

You can dab the paper with your questions in some vaseline and place it where it will do the most good.

People like you that hide behind screen names and take pot shots at legitimate professionals will never confront anybody in person, because you are chicken shit.

I just wanted to show those who read this stuff what you are made of--like they couldn\'t have figured it out for themselves.

Crawl back in your hole, pal.

Good night and good bye.

Have a Tylenol P. M. on me.

[cubfan0316]

wow, a big tough guy.a man i would like to meet.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Barry I\'m not adverse to taking time out for a worthwhile event. I think you\'ve set this one up so I\'m the one that has to travel, but you also infused more hedging and insulation into your proposition than a gardener and dock worker see at Dow Corning. You also made no guarantee regarding the witnesses. You said \"one, maybe both\" without specifying which. I\'d have an examination to prepare. You really want me to prepare it blind with your \"colleagues\" positioned to evade with an advising attorney?

Heres what I suggest. You actually go to the suspects and tell them you participate at the preemininet thoroughbred horse racing discussion site and that many there have a deep concern about the effect of illegal doping of thoroughbreds and its long term effect upon the future of the sport. That some there question both Pletcher and Allday\'s accomplishments over the last 10 years and believe that they have been cheating by using performance enhancing substances. Lastly inform them that at least one of these individuals wants to ask them a series of questions in that regard. Both general and specific questions and that many at the site and around the country want to hear their responses to those questions.

I want Plech. You ask Plech if he will answer some written questions for the board in regard to the concerns and if not would he appear/link for such questioning on At the Races and in lieu of that would he appear at a meeting you arrange for 10 minutes of oral questioning with a stenographer present, (Not 10 total minutes mind you, 10 minutes of questioning time), and convey his legitimate response to us.

I\'m sure this has been about drama and trying to find a way to take a shot at me and that you are not really going to broach this with the suspects, but before you sweep this under the rug I will be preparing a list of questions that would have been asked and post them here. (I need to prepare that list anyway) That way you can read them and pass them on, or choose not to, but at least all here will know the questions they don\'t want to answer.

I\'d prefer the answers be under oath and I\'ve begun working upon that, but I\'d suggest you read the accounts regarding the City of Joliet\'s Sgt. Drew Peterson. He\'s also playing tough guy and hiding something too.

P.S. By the way Barry, 3 days after the Santa Anita Derby John T Chance factored King of the Roxy\'s Derby chances as about Nil and I advised you to sell him. How has Roxy faired since then, have you taken my advice and if not how is Roxy doing?

CtMC
 
 Irwin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The attorney is mine.
>
> The cop would be there to protect you from getting
> your ass kicked.
>
> Chuck, you are a wimp.
>
> You wanted 10 minutes to confront these guys and I
> offered to give it to you.
>
> You can dab the paper with your questions in some
> vaseline and place it where it will do the most
> good.
>
> People like you that hide behind screen names and
> take pot shots at legitimate professionals will
> never confront anybody in person, because you are
> chicken @#$%&.
>
> I just wanted to show those who read this stuff
> what you are made of--like they couldn\'t have
> figured it out for themselves.
>
> Crawl back in your hole, pal.
>
> Good night and good bye.
>
> Have a Tylenol P. M. on me.

[richiebee]

Barry (and to a degree,Sighthound):

To be fair, the Clown has not been the only poster on this board to join
in the low speed pursuit of the White Mercedes. The Clown\'s bluster and
arrogance have never been able to conceal the absolute lack of factual
basis for his allegations.

I would think that Steven Allday,one of the most prominent vets in Racing,
and Todd Pletcher, who will own all of the important training records in this
country by the time he retires, would be too busy making millions of dollars
to take 10 seconds, not to mention 10 minutes, to defend themselves against
an \"internet troll\".

Whenever the Clown attacks Allday/Pletcher, I feel compelled to point out
that he is being slightly irresponsible by failing to provide a factual
foundation for his allegations.

Do I want to see Chuckles and others silenced for what might be perceived as a
lack of responsibility and accountability? Absolutely not.

The racing fan/handicapper who believes that the playing field is uneven has no
real advocate in two of Racing\'s major publications, DRF and the Blood
Horse,which are basically house organs and really never are critical of Racing.
When these publications set out to address what is wrong with Racing, you might
see the occasional editorial, but not an extensive and sustained effort to cure
Racing\'s many maladies. So here on this board, and on other similar ones I would
imagine, is heard the voice of the Racing fan and thankfully that voice is some
times utilized to express concern, discontent and disgust with the current
state of the industry.

Racing has struck the iceberg, and DRF and Blood Horse are playing \"Nearer My
God to Thee\".

Doc Allday has access to Steve Byk\'s radio show. Doc Allday could come on this
board using his own name, just as Barry Irwin has. Why hasn\'t he found it
necessary to address the allegations made on this board?

Because he doesn\'t have to, because there has been no harm to his practice and
no harm to his reputation. And to be honest, nobody has really taken the good
Doctor himself to task for his anger fueled, innuendo laden attack on one of New
York\'s leading trainers. We all know Chuckles\' posts are factually challenged,
but the tone of Allday\'s tirade was \"I have so many facts which of course I can
not disclose\". No real help for Racing there.

Barry, you are a big player and an important voice in Racing. You have access to
the major forums. In terms of racing\'s problems, there is a lot of big game to
be hunted, yet you seem to be overly concerned with a small pest.

Barry and Sight: When it comes to having specific facts regarding Allday\'s
practice or Pletcher\'s training techniques, we all know that Chuckles is \"Big
hat, no cattle\". You have not exactly replaced Woodward and Bernstein by
disclosing this. And, if anything, all you have accomplished is giving a certain
Clown a lot of attention, which a certain amateur psychologist/ professional
figure maker says is CTC\'s raison d\' etre.

[Barry Irwin]

Chuckles: I don\'t plan on continuing this communication in this forum any longer. Call me or e-mail me. Let\'s get together. I will come to Chicago to speak with you. If you have something concrete, I promise that I will move forward. If it is just more of this upsupported b. s., I will drop the matter entirely.

These people that you call suspects have the total respect of professionals in the horse racing world for their abilities.

I deal with trainers and vets all the time. The vast majority, if they owned a horse themselves and needed a trainer or vet, would choose these two men.

You, pal, don\'t even have a name.

What you have is an internet history, on this and other boards, of popping off and making accusations, none of which as far as I can tell have ever been backed up.

What you are involved in is public masterbation.

I seriously doubt if any, or many, of those reading your tripe are on your side, so your routine of kissing their asses misses the mark.

One day, hopefully not in the too distant future, one\'s ability to gain access to post on boards like this, will require positive identification, and creeps like you will recede back into the holes from whence you came.

The internet is a wonderful source for many things, but the worst thing about it is the anonimity that allows irresponsible twerps such as you to pop off.

[Barry Irwin]

Good point re Chuckles reason for being.

[miff]

Chuck drank too much of the Kool Aide offered by the conspiracy idiots. Never sat down to analyze what was really going on, who was winning and logically why in many cases.The conspiracy idiots are mainly disgruntled bettors,low percentage trainers/owners who have been getting waxed on the track and at the windows for years by Pletcher runners.They make what is known in New York as a \"suckers holler\"i.e. \"I lose cause I\'m gettin cheated\"

I will never understand why Chuck and others can\'t see the overwhelming volume of expensive/fast runners rolled out daily by TAP with only \"normal\" overall success relative to the quality and size of the stable.


Mike

[Anonymous User]

Please. The Holiday season has commenced and I would like to offer a truce. Enjoy the attached. Allday by War. How appropriate.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=K9HUrAMiz1o


CtC2

[sighthound]

Richiebee, you always contribute considered, well-reasoned points.

>> And, if anything, all you have
> accomplished is giving a certain
> Clown a lot of attention, which a certain amateur
> psychologist/ professional
> figure maker says is CTC\'s raison d\' etre.

On the subject of challenging clowns:  if it causes one other person reading to consider, before they repeat elsewhere, \"Oh, the White Mercedes must have been there before the race\" (the White Mercedes hasn\'t been around on race days for some years now) that\'s beneficial.

Regarding the true extent of drug abuse in horse racing - how much is real, and how much is simply fan perception, fueled by the clowns of the world?

Fans should take the time to look up different racing jurisdiction websites, and read the lists of trainers who have been set down over the past two years, and for what (it\'s there - Kentucky and California are good starts).  

Do fans know the difference and significance between finding a vial of cobra venom, a horse having a high TCO2, and a minor naproxin overage?  Which could affect the outcome of a race, and steal your money?

Do fans have any idea how much testing is currently and routinely being done, and for what substances?

The clowns of the world should be silenced, as their repeated, loud yammering is drowning out those trying to seriously address actual drug abuses in racing.  There are enough real abuses present, that imaginary ones are not needed.

Agree with you that if Allday has particular information, he should put up or shut up, too.

[Barry Irwin]

You are the human equivalent of a cheap Fourth of July firework that starts off with a lot of sparks, but fizzles and fails to deliver as promised.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Richie, It\'s pretty clear that you don\'t fully comprehend the evidence and circumstances that have already been discussed. I don\'t think you\'re sufficiently in tune to the unreasonableness of the Plech performance jump ups and in a way you\'re very willing to provide cover for the suspects and dismiss improbable and outrageous anecdotal evidence. But your inability to see whats there isn\'t my point.

Heres the rub Richie. Plech finally hit the board some at Aqueduct after being becalmed in the doldrums. He\'s winning at about 16% now and is third in the money won standings. I won\'t be surprised if he wins the meet for money won, but I don\'t think we\'ll see him hitting in at 25% plus for awhile and I think I know why.

Keep in mind that they had nothing on Barry Bonds. There was lots of circumstantial evidence and hearsay but insufficient evidence to convict him of a substance violation, but where Bonds got in trouble was in answering tough questions. Congress of course had the authority of subpoenas and sworn oath and because of that Barry had to lie and he was caught in those lies. For the suspects involved in our situation, we don\'t currently have that authority,but what you are discounting is how a tough question and tough followup questions can catch a witness in evasion, vacillation and inane explanation and in those silly responses reveal their trait for candor and truthfulness. Maybe you don\'t think I can ask a tough question. Thats your prerogative, but before one can ask a tough question you have to have a deponent.

Maybe you should consider the implication in Sgt. Barry\'s last post that he wants me to tell him all I know before he takes any action. I think we discerned that he never intended to broach this topic with the suspects. I want someone to question them in detail. It doesn\'t have to be me, but I know the essential facts, can get down to them very quickly and am confident that I can elicit answers that this board will find extremely interesting. Questioning and followups upon that Lawyer Ron performance jump due to the exercise rider change just for example.

At some point, I do want to see them under oath, but for the present, I don\'t believe its even necessary if someone merely asks the right questions.

I disagree that there is not a substantial segment of those involved in the game that don\'t already know that something very fishy has been going on. You\'ve forgotten some very recent DRF stories and apparently don\'t talk much to other handicappers about the issue.

You were correct, the last two words of the National Anthem are \"Play Ball!\" but even \"the brave\" would have sufficed. Unfortunately we are going to get neither.

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barry (and to a degree,Sighthound):
>
> To be fair, the Clown has not been the only poster
> on this board to join
> in the low speed pursuit of the White Mercedes.
> The Clown\'s bluster and
> arrogance have never been able to conceal the
> absolute lack of factual
> basis for his allegations.
>
> I would think that Steven Allday,one of the most
> prominent vets in Racing,
> and Todd Pletcher, who will own all of the
> important training records in this
> country by the time he retires, would be too busy
> making millions of dollars
> to take 10 seconds, not to mention 10 minutes, to
> defend themselves against
> an \"internet troll\".
>
> Whenever the Clown attacks Allday/Pletcher, I feel
> compelled to point out
> that he is being slightly irresponsible by failing
> to provide a factual
> foundation for his allegations.
>
> Do I want to see Chuckles and others silenced for
> what might be perceived as a
> lack of responsibility and accountability?
> Absolutely not.
>
> The racing fan/handicapper who believes that the
> playing field is uneven has no
> real advocate in two of Racing\'s major
> publications, DRF and the Blood
> Horse,which are basically house organs and really
> never are critical of Racing.
> When these publications set out to address what is
> wrong with Racing, you might
> see the occasional editorial, but not an extensive
> and sustained effort to cure
> Racing\'s many maladies. So here on this board, and
> on other similar ones I would
> imagine, is heard the voice of the Racing fan and
> thankfully that voice is some
> times utilized to express concern, discontent and
> disgust with the current
> state of the industry.
>
> Racing has struck the iceberg, and DRF and Blood
> Horse are playing \"Nearer My
> God to Thee\".
>
> Doc Allday has access to Steve Byk\'s radio show.
> Doc Allday could come on this
> board using his own name, just as Barry Irwin has.
> Why hasn\'t he found it
> necessary to address the allegations made on this
> board?
>
> Because he doesn\'t have to, because there has been
> no harm to his practice and
> no harm to his reputation. And to be honest,
> nobody has really taken the good
> Doctor himself to task for his anger fueled,
> innuendo laden attack on one of New
> York\'s leading trainers. We all know Chuckles\'
> posts are factually challenged,
> but the tone of Allday\'s tirade was \"I have so
> many facts which of course I can
> not disclose\". No real help for Racing there.
>
> Barry, you are a big player and an important voice
> in Racing. You have access to
> the major forums. In terms of racing\'s problems,
> there is a lot of big game to
> be hunted, yet you seem to be overly concerned
> with a small pest.
>
> Barry and Sight: When it comes to having specific
> facts regarding Allday\'s
> practice or Pletcher\'s training techniques, we all
> know that Chuckles is \"Big
> hat, no cattle\". You have not exactly replaced
> Woodward and Bernstein by
> disclosing this. And, if anything, all you have
> accomplished is giving a certain
> Clown a lot of attention, which a certain amateur
> psychologist/ professional
> figure maker says is CTC\'s raison d\' etre.

[TGJB]

Okay, I\'m cutting it off here. Yes, Chuckle\'s posts are really about him, and an attempt to get attention. Yes, his theory about blood doping was silly. But I agree with him on the big picture. There is such a thing as evidence, even when there is no proof. And if you want some evidence, check out how Pletcher\'s horses have been running in NY compared to everywhere else since August 1 (like, this weekend for example-- all out of town).

Barry, you\'ve got to be kidding because a) this is a board, it\'s ridiculous to demand that someone travel for something that will have no legal impact, b) Pletcher and Allday would never show up. If you ever can get a situation where those guys can be questioned under oth by me and their records, assistants and clients subpeoned, I\'ll travel to it myself.

Again, we are letting horses be drugged every day (milkshakes) the way the rules are written. We KNOW this is taking place, or at least I do, based on information, not belief. I also have reliable info from people I trust who have spoken directly to Allday, where he has told them about illegal things he has done.

I will take down any posts that are just more name calling. If you don\'t have something real to add on the subject, don\'t post.

[richiebee]

Chuck:

Still awaiting fact. You lurk around the redboard room, resting place of a
rather extensive database, yet not once have you tried to support any of your
formulations with any empirical data.

Pletcher was cold at Saratoga, cool at Belmont and Aqueduct. He seems to be
winning races outside of New York at the expected rate, and has continued to
win important stakes during his NY malaise.

Streaks happen. Mott was quite hot at the Spa, yet was 2/28 at Aq before
sweeping today\'s 2YO stakes.

A cynic might say that NY racing is currently skewed to slow rats bred in the
Empire State, and that certainly has not been the focus of TAP\'s stable.
(Actually TAP just won the AQ finale today for slow rats on the rug).

There are 2 problems caused by prosecutions unsupported by factual evidence of
wrongdoing -- the erosion of the rights of the accused and the fact that actual
wrongdoers may go unpunished.

Apparently, the press, the Racing Commissions and the prosecutors have no
interest in asking the questions that you say need to be posed to Pletcher and
Allday. That\'s good enough for me.

You say that \"someone\" needs to ask the questions. Barry gave YOU the chance to
be \"someone\", or did I miss something?

[sighthound]

>>And if you want some evidence, check
> out how Pletcher\'s horses have been running in NY
> compared to everywhere else since August 1 (like,
> this weekend for example-- all out of town).

That\'s not \"evidence\" in the least.  It simply raises the question of \"why?\"

Are you then maintaining that NY has strict testing rules, compared to other, more lenient jurisdictions?  

Which do you consider the \"more lenient\" jurisdictions? (\"anywhere else\" doesn\'t really narrow it down)

 > Again, we are letting horses be drugged every day
> (milkshakes) the way the rules are written.

Milkshakes have been around for decades, and were never prohibited until lately. Allday himself freely admitted he gave them.  

What jurisdictions are not testing for TCO2?  Or, are you saying the testing process in itself is suspect as inaccurate?