Allday Music

[richiebee]

Tuned in for Allday Part II and was a little disappointed. In Part I, Dr. Steve
seemed ready to tear Dutrow a new one; in Part II the good Doctor was a little
more restrained.

Still, a good listen and we should all be happy that Steve Byk provides a media
forum for Racing. But no real bombshells from Doc Allday. On the one hand he
admits to milkshaking horses (before said practice was regulated). On the other
hand he says he has not been involved in the pre race preparation of horses for
quite a few years and if this is so a lot of the \"White Mercedes\" chatter on
this board and elsewhere was much ado about nothing.

It is very possible, as Sighthound and Miff have mentioned, that Doc Steve is
just a top notch hock and stifle man while other vets and trainers are overly
concerned with front end (knee and ankle) problems.

A big disappointment was that nothing new was mentioned by host Steve, Doc
Steve, Lee Tomlinson or any of the call in guests in the way of what needs to
be done to cure Racing\'s ills: Yes a national sanctioning body and uniform rules
enforced with reciprocity are needed. (The NTRA is merely a marketing concern
and seems barely competent enough to conduct a bake sale). Yes penalties for
cheaters need to be more penal. Yes maybe the penalization of owners and maybe
individual runners which have been illegally medicated may serve as more of a
deterrent.

If any of the above solutions sound familiar it is because they have been
discussed on this very forum for the past 5 or 6 years, if not longer.

I will concede for the sake of argument that Patrick Biancone may have been
totally unaware that cobra venom was in areas that he was responsible for and
that said venom may have been administered to runners he was responsible for
without his knowledge; that being said, the trainer responsibility rule is what
it is, and I think Racing missed a chance to make a strong statement by handing
down a much stronger penalty in this case, the kind of penalty that may have
had the effect of making trainers and vets less likely to wander through that
cheating side of town.

I know I am talking about a family man and his opportunity to make a living,
but we are also speaking about a man who has already been excluded from
participation in Racing in a major venue.

Racing may have yet another chance to make a strong statement. When poster DITZ
first shed light on the Wild Desert affair back in September on this board, he
mentioned the possibility that Team Tricky was probably running afoul of federal
statutes and maybe some state laws which deal with altering the outcome of a
sporting event.

The seldom heard from Indulto from the Rag board has always been a lover of
alliteration, and while it is a hack\'s tool, I offer the following: Time to
take the teflon off of Team Tricky.

I think on Racing\'s long list of problems, cheating, whether it be drug fueled
or otherwise, is not at the top of the list. Here is my short list of long and
short term problems facing the game:

1) Failure to cultivate a fan base which will carry Racing into the next 10- 20
years. In retail they would say that there is a failure to \"grow and market the
brand\"

2) Lack of national sanctioning of racing.

3) Failure to take advantage of internet opportunities. I would love to be
betting on Churchill and Fair Grounds in the comfort of Living Room Downs, but
am/will be prevented from doing so because of a pissing match between CDSN/
Magna and TVG.

4) Dilution of the breed. More injuries and less quality racing. A lot of very
expensive champions being bred, but also a lot of fragile and faint hearted
runners to be seen at any given track on any given day.

5) Inmates running the asylum. Breeders and trainers with 100+ head strings of
horses given too much deference. The tail is wagging the dog.

6) Taxation and takeout issues.

7) Maybe now you can throw in cheating which probably started around the time
that eohippus(sp?) became stout enough to bear the weight of a man on its back.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I\'ve never remotely considered Allday to be doing race day preparation. I believe the preparation takes time and is done weeks in advance. Its about blood and fatigue. Very self serving comment upon his part. However if one was naive enough to be influenced by one of the games biggest cheaters, even working on ankles and butts is obviously \"pre race\" preparation. Who does this charlatan think he\'s fooling? Never let a con man\'s semantics influence you. This man needs to be barred from the game. I know he\'s got a family to feed but if he can\'t feed them honestly he needs to take up a different line of work and if the Horse God\'s are willing, one day he will come clean or flip burgers at McDonald\'s. At least burger flipping is honest work.

I don\'t think there\'s any such thing as a trainer vet confidential relationship. No privilege there. However, I\'m sure Tricky Dick has some dirt on Allday after their years together and if given immunity from racing imposed sanctions for prior wrongdoing, Dutrow is certainly in a position to ruin what credibility Allday has left. There\'s obviously a rift between them. Allday is no rocket scientist and he has provided information for authorities to exploit that rift. How much proof there is in a trainers testimony without a positive is a fact to be determined. However, now is the time for Racing\'s Oversight Agencies to get fully involved. Allday opened the door for that involvement.

Why he would do that is another matter. Either he is as smart as this nation\'s Chief Executive, (i.e. as smart as a box of rocks), or he did so to try and impeach Dutrow\'s credibility. Its clearly a little of both, but why would he want to impeach Dutrow\'s credibility? I believe its because the rift is large enough that fear has set in for Allday.

This has potential, lets see where it goes.



richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tuned in for Allday Part II and was a little
> disappointed. In Part I, Dr. Steve
> seemed ready to tear Dutrow a new one; in Part II
> the good Doctor was a little
> more restrained.
>
> Still, a good listen and we should all be happy
> that Steve Byk provides a media
> forum for Racing. But no real bombshells from Doc
> Allday. On the one hand he
> admits to milkshaking horses (before said practice
> was regulated). On the other
> hand he says he has not been involved in the pre
> race preparation of horses for
> quite a few years and if this is so a lot of the
> \"White Mercedes\" chatter on
> this board and elsewhere was much ado about
> nothing.
>
> It is very possible, as Sighthound and Miff have
> mentioned, that Doc Steve is
> just a top notch hock and stifle man while other
> vets and trainers are overly
> concerned with front end (knee and ankle)
> problems.
>
> A big disappointment was that nothing new was
> mentioned by host Steve, Doc
> Steve, Lee Tomlinson or any of the call in guests
> in the way of what needs to
> be done to cure Racing\'s ills: Yes a national
> sanctioning body and uniform rules
> enforced with reciprocity are needed. (The NTRA is
> merely a marketing concern
> and seems barely competent enough to conduct a
> bake sale). Yes penalties for
> cheaters need to be more penal. Yes maybe the
> penalization of owners and maybe
> individual runners which have been illegally
> medicated may serve as more of a
> deterrent.
>
> If any of the above solutions sound familiar it is
> because they have been
> discussed on this very forum for the past 5 or 6
> years, if not longer.
>
> I will concede for the sake of argument that
> Patrick Biancone may have been
> totally unaware that cobra venom was in areas that
> he was responsible for and
> that said venom may have been administered to
> runners he was responsible for
> without his knowledge; that being said, the
> trainer responsibility rule is what
> it is, and I think Racing missed a chance to make
> a strong statement by handing
> down a much stronger penalty in this case, the
> kind of penalty that may have
> had the effect of making trainers and vets less
> likely to wander through that
> cheating side of town.
>
> I know I am talking about a family man and his
> opportunity to make a living,
> but we are also speaking about a man who has
> already been excluded from
> participation in Racing in a major venue.
>
> Racing may have yet another chance to make a
> strong statement. When poster DITZ
> first shed light on the Wild Desert affair back in
> September on this board, he
> mentioned the possibility that Team Tricky was
> probably running afoul of federal
> statutes and maybe some state laws which deal with
> altering the outcome of a
> sporting event.
>
> The seldom heard from Indulto from the Rag board
> has always been a lover of
> alliteration, and while it is a hack\'s tool, I
> offer the following: Time to
> take the teflon off of Team Tricky.
>
> I think on Racing\'s long list of problems,
> cheating, whether it be drug fueled
> or otherwise, is not at the top of the list. Here
> is my short list of long and
> short term problems facing the game:
>
> 1) Failure to cultivate a fan base which will
> carry Racing into the next 10- 20
> years. In retail they would say that there is a
> failure to \"grow and market the
> brand\"
>
> 2) Lack of national sanctioning of racing.
>
> 3) Failure to take advantage of internet
> opportunities. I would love to be
> betting on Churchill and Fair Grounds in the
> comfort of Living Room Downs, but
> am/will be prevented from doing so because of a
> pissing match between CDSN/
> Magna and TVG.
>
> 4) Dilution of the breed. More injuries and less
> quality racing. A lot of very
> expensive champions being bred, but also a lot of
> fragile and faint hearted
> runners to be seen at any given track on any given
> day.
>
> 5) Inmates running the asylum. Breeders and
> trainers with 100+ head strings of
> horses given too much deference. The tail is
> wagging the dog.
>
> 6) Taxation and takeout issues.
>
> 7) Maybe now you can throw in cheating which
> probably started around the time
> that eohippus(sp?) became stout enough to bear the
> weight of a man on its back.

[richiebee]

Chuck:

Lots of speculation, though quite an entertaining read, and I will not ask how
you came by your opinion that flipping a burger is an honest day\'s work.

Chuck, in my post I mention Biancone and Dutrow in a manner in which is not too
flattering. I feel empowered to do this because their past transgressions are a
matter of public record.

I do not know that a similar public record exists for Allday, although I will
give you credit for trying to weave a synthetic substitute from threads of
hearsay, rumor, speculation and circumstantial evidence.

It is quite likely that the high profile stables you accuse of cheating have
teams of vets who specialize in various areas, and that there are vets who
specialize in lameness/soundness issues and others who perform the voodoo
bloodwork which you allege is rampant in these stables. And as our host has
stated more than once, a lot of the work in the grey areas may be accomplished
through long acting timed release oral supplements which do not involve overt
veterinary involvement.

You still haven\'t established that Allday was involved in any treatments
administered to the 3 dead Pletcher runners. I will agree with you that no
matter which vets were involved in treating these horses, their deaths are
somewhat beyond coincidence and may not have been investigated properly beyond
routine insurance follow up.

Finally, I don\'t think Allday would be screaming from the rooftops unless, in
the words of the famous Sargeant Schultz, \"his papers are in order\".

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Richie, I\'ll agree that the evidence against Allday and Pletcher is circumstantial. It\'s a mountain of circumstantial evidence however.
Direct testimony or positives are necessary to penalize him and thats why I\'m very interested in this unusual feud. Unlike yourself, I believe Allday very capable of hanging himself.

That said, I think the evidence against Allday far outweighs the evidence against Biancone regarding  Cobra Venom being discovered in Biancone\'s stable. No clear indication of use. No positive, No clear identification with Biacone. Nothing but discovery of an illegal substance in no ones clear possession. Don\'t get me wrong, I think the penalty is fair, but I also don\'t think it comes close to the degree of evidence against Allday.

Most of handicapping involves reading between the lines. Anyone can look at a figure but it takes a little more insight to weigh the numbers and figure out where they are leading. The same is very much true in regard to the unpublished activity of those working behind the scenes.

Allday killed those horses and more and he did it violating the substance regulations.

He\'s having to modify his routines. Eventually, we\'ll get him or clean his act up. Don\'t worry, be happy.



richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chuck:
>
> Lots of speculation, though quite an entertaining
> read, and I will not ask how
> you came by your opinion that flipping a burger is
> an honest day\'s work.
>
> Chuck, in my post I mention Biancone and Dutrow in
> a manner in which is not too
> flattering. I feel empowered to do this because
> their past transgressions are a
> matter of public record.
>
> I do not know that a similar public record exists
> for Allday, although I will
> give you credit for trying to weave a synthetic
> substitute from threads of
> hearsay, rumor, speculation and circumstantial
> evidence.
>
> It is quite likely that the high profile stables
> you accuse of cheating have
> teams of vets who specialize in various areas, and
> that there are vets who
> specialize in lameness/soundness issues and others
> who perform the voodoo
> bloodwork which you allege is rampant in these
> stables. And as our host has
> stated more than once, a lot of the work in the
> grey areas may be accomplished
> through long acting timed release oral supplements
> which do not involve overt
> veterinary involvement.
>
> You still haven\'t established that Allday was
> involved in any treatments
> administered to the 3 dead Pletcher runners. I
> will agree with you that no
> matter which vets were involved in treating these
> horses, their deaths are
> somewhat beyond coincidence and may not have been
> investigated properly beyond
> routine insurance follow up.
>
> Finally, I don\'t think Allday would be screaming
> from the rooftops unless, in
> the words of the famous Sargeant Schultz, \"his
> papers are in order\".

[Silver Charm]

Allday, Dutrow, Frankel, Biancone.

Put\'em in bed together and look at what you have now got.


http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071106/480/628ed528ea9f420c9afad481a2ec9135;_ylt=Al4RQsQjZIGGr8oZDfoNCj0uQE4F

[sighthound]

Chuckles_the_Clown2 Wrote:
> Allday killed those horses and more and he did it
> violating the substance regulations.

Quite a public accusation, Clown.  Equivalent to Allday\'s public statements about Dutrow.  

I assume Allday has enough evidence to back up his public statements.  Where\'s yours?

Do you know if Allday even touched those horses?  If so, when?

[spa]

OJ will walk...Chuckles change the material,please.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Plech and Allday have defied the substance regulations. I\'ve gone over the evidence. If folks didn\'t see it or don\'t want to believe I can\'t help them any more than I can help that type understand how the Country\'s Constitution has been raped and torn to pieces.

Its up to Barry and Hooper or those that interact with the cheaters to push the inquiry further.

On a related note Plech lost the training title at the Spa for the first time in years, finished up at Belmont at 13% and is nowhere to be found at Aqueduct, (granting its not a focus meet for him), and heretofore partners in crime Allday and Dutrow are having a public feud.

Theres been some remarkable progress recently upon bringing the cheaters to justice. Its important to keep pushing, keep discussing the culprits, in that way the playing field may one day be truly leveled. How else, other than a level playing field, will Spa and Sighthound ever cash an important bet?

Lets do it for them... and the game.


spa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OJ will walk...Chuckles change the
> material,please.

[xichibanx]

BTW...O.J. has just been indicted which means very little.  A ham sandwich could get indicted.  When they close the cell door give me a call.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Circumstantial evidence got Scott Petersen, is getting the Cop from Illinois Peterson, but didn\'t get OJ. Prosecution by circumstantial evidence is Dangerous to our civil liberties.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

Would be a pretty ugly baby......

NCT

[Silver Charm]

NC Tony,

As an owner as soon as you get into bed with that crew thats what you look like.........

[Street Sense]

Richie, remember Favorite Trick and Countess Diana?  Campaigning the champion 2yo filly and colt in a year is a feat worthy of D Wayne, yet here it was being accomplished by Patrick Byrne (who?).  Who was the vet?  Allday.  Shortly after, another one of Byrne\'s horses got a positive and never has another trainer taken such a fall from grace.  Both owners of Favorite Trick and Countess Diana moved their horses to other trainers.  That just doesn\'t happen when a trainer won you an Eclipse and apparently did such a good job for you.  Rumor was that Allday set up Byrne to get that positive.

At some point one has to come to the realization that where there\'s so much smoke there must be some fire.

[richiebee]

Street Sense Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richie, remember Favorite Trick and Countess
> Diana?  Campaigning the champion 2yo filly and
> colt in a year is a feat worthy of D Wayne, yet
> here it was being accomplished by Patrick Byrne
> (who?).  Who was the vet?  Allday.  Shortly after,
> another one of Byrne\'s horses got a positive and
> never has another trainer taken such a fall from
> grace.  Both owners of Favorite Trick and Countess
> Diana moved their horses to other trainers.  That
> just doesn\'t happen when a trainer won you an
> Eclipse and apparently did such a good job for
> you.  Rumor was that Allday set up Byrne to get
> that positive.
>
> At some point one has to come to the realization
> that where there\'s so much smoke there must be
> some fire.

Street:

Even if I had forgotten, a certain denizen of the Big Top (I am not talking TG
#s here) would never let us forget, as the Byrne/ Allday alliance is almost as
essential to CTC\'s mantra as is the Dead Pletcher Trio (which might be a good
name for a punk/bluegrass band) and the nebulous connection between Tour de
France cyclists and performance equines. Chuckles is still trying to determine
if the Grassy Knoll was firm or yielding that day almost exactly 45 years ago.

Street you were going along pretty strong, presenting a compelling case,even
though your evidence was a bit aged, 10 years to be exact. Unfortunately you
finish like a claimer in need of a myectomy when your last sentence in the first
paragraph begins with the word \"Rumor\".

I refer you to NCT\'s post where the Jesuit jurisprude (and my choice to cover
himself in glory in Vegas in 2008) opines that \"Prosecution by circumstantial
evidence is dangerous to our civil liberties\". Learned Hand, Benjamin Cardozo,
or William O. Douglas may have been able to say it better, but it would have
taken them 5 pages and the help of a law clerk.

Further Affiant Saith Naught.

[sighthound]

Chuckles wrote:
>>>\"Plech and Allday have defied the substance regulations. I\'ve gone over the >>>evidence.\"

Unfortunately, \"If I repeat it publically often enough, it will become true\", isn\'t really factual evidence.

BTW, did anybody hear Part III, where Maggie Moss defended Dutrow on ATR?  That is worth a listen.

I am amazed that the top repeat offender trainers in this country barely get a mention by Chuckles (and others on this board), consumed as he is with discrediting his two favorite whipping boys.