Mepivocaine (sp?)

[richiebee]

DRF reports trainer Mullins has a positive for mepivocaine (sp?), joining R. Dutrow (suspension, NY, 30 days), Asmussen (suspension, LA., 6 months), Pletcher (suspension appealed). All of the above suspensions involved mepivocaine.

Even sincere anti- drug proponents (TGJB) and those whose sincerity I have voiced skepticism about (Barry Irwin) have repeatedly contended that mepivocaine is NOT a performance enhancing drug.

But it keeps turning up in the blood samples of the runners of the usual suspects.

Not performance enhancing, but possibly a masking agent?

[SJU5]

http://www.amyrdhstudents.com/anesthesiainjectionsbyamy.html

This drug has been discussed in past threads. It is an injectable pain killer...similar to Xylocaine which your dentist gives you before dental procedures.

Don\'t rush to judgement...our equine racers also get excellent dental work in the barns and it\'s used there also. Just as the effects (amount of pain relief per shot) and time it lasts differs in equine and humans.

That\'s IF it was used for dental reasons...I sure wish I knew when horses had dental extractions before they race...I know how shitty I and my athletes feel after dental work and the shot wears off!

[miff]

Richiebee,

True that mepivocaine is used in horse dental work,eg wolf teeth extractions etc.As a nerve deadening agent it can have other obvious uses to help a horse.Some of the people who are trying to wage the performance enhancing drug battle often speak of \"cocktails\". These cocktails are alleged to be a chemists mix of several potent drugs with a changing formula and additives that enhance secretion from the horse asap(thought to be during the race when profound sweating occurs)The mystery is how far out it is given.Some feel that the cocktail is not a race day thing,leaving them even more perplexed as to why pre and post race tests are negative.


I still feel that detention barns, shake testing etc are meager attempts by track operators to appear to be serious about curtailing performance enhancing drugs.Short of a handle strike by players, this will never go away.


Mike

[richiebee]

Miff:

     Why don\'t they draw blood from runners for testing at the time of entry ie 48 hours out or 24 hours out? Any deterrent effect?

[miff]

Rich,

Depending on the race jurisdiction, they do pre race blood and post urine test.This from an industry source:

\"In general, blood is the only material on which a practical pre-race testing scheme can be based. Blood testing is not as sensitive as urine testing and detects only about 66 per cent of the drugs detectable in urine. Therefore, pre-race blood testing is always performed in conjunction with post race urine testing. Because blood is easily and rapidly drawn, the use of blood samples in all post race testing schemes is recommended. Pre-race testing is also a relatively expensive proposition, but it is the only method which actually prevents the running of an illegally medicated horse.\"

Understand that unless a specific test exists for detecting a certain drug, it will go undetected.So,if a sophisticated chemists concocts something, how do you test for it? It\'s a witch\'s brew and it\'s easily changeable, I hear.
That\'s why I feel that unless the big handle palyers join with the masses in a boycott, nothing really meaningful will happen.

I am becoming biased to the present NYRA management team and feel they are the best shot to address this issue in NY.With potential big money from slots and no shareholders to please, NYRA will invest serious money on the drug thing.A \"super\" testing plan of attack does exist but it will cost big money.

Mike

[imallin]

In a way, it IS a performance enhancer because if the horse feels no pain, he\'ll run faster. Its not a performance enhancer in the sense that it opens up the lungs or makes a horse not get as tired as he normally would, but less pain \'enhances\' what would otherwise be a performance where the horse felt pain.

Someone in this thread mentioned they wish they could find out which horses are getting dental work....i agree, that would be nice. It would also be nice to find out other \'surgical\' procedures. Everyone is so gung ho on finding about first time geldings, but what about other stuff? How about other minor \'surgeries\' that affect performance. Is throat surgery LESS important to know than first time gelding? Trainers get a 400 dollar fine in California for NOT reporting first time gelding....no one seems to care about throat surgery.

How about some type of abscess in the mouth? Would you want to know that that horse coming off the 20 length loss had a painful abscess that\'s gone today? Is that LESS important than first time gelding?

There is so much info out there that is \'hidden\' from the public, all they want to know is first time gelding.

And, don\'t get me started on shoes. The entire racing industry acts as if there is no such thing. Watch TVG, HRTV or ESPN or NBC and see if you can find ONE reference as to what shoes these horses are wearing. See if during the Ky Derby or Breeders Cup telecast if any \'expert\' is even curious as to what kind of shoes the participants are currently wearing and wore in the past.

[richiebee]

Good point about the shoes. I have been wondering if the contribution of a good blacksmith, which is very important, will become less so when racing is conducted over synthetic surfaces.

My pet peeve has always been equipment changes. I know that harness programs give an extensive list of runners\' equipment. I have always thought it might be worthwhile to know when a runner changes bits, bridles or blinkers. A change from \"cheater\" blinkers to 1/2 or 3/4 cup blinkers is significant enough to be noted in the program.

With regards to extensive veterinary disclosure, I would imagine that it would be a boon for horseplayers but might change the claiming game (which is based on deception and not disclosure) quite radically.

[Uncle Buck]

Any substance ending with the letters \"caine\" should be banned and can be considered performance enhancing.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DRF reports trainer Mullins has a positive for
> mepivocaine (sp?), joining R. Dutrow (suspension,
> NY, 30 days), Asmussen (suspension, LA., 6
> months), Pletcher (suspension appealed). All of
> the above suspensions involved mepivocaine.
>
> Even sincere anti- drug proponents (TGJB) and
> those whose sincerity I have voiced skepticism
> about (Barry Irwin) have repeatedly contended that
> mepivocaine is NOT a performance enhancing drug.
>
> But it keeps turning up in the blood samples of
> the runners of the usual suspects.
>
> Not performance enhancing, but possibly a masking
> agent?

Richie, I\'m in full accord with your suspicion on this. The usual suspects testing positive for this substance is more than coincidental. These guys are cheating with it. Precisely how is the issue.

[marcus]

Any chance the impact of the extensive vet disclosure on the Claiming Game would eventually force Breeders to do a little better ?  

[richiebee]

Marcus:

      My feeling recently has been that breeders are more concerned with producing a horse which can work a quick 1/8th of a mile the week of a 2YO in training sale rather than breeding winners of graded stakes.

[Barry Irwin]

Why not send a note to Jay Hovdey and have him pose this question to Mullins?

You might suggest to Hovdey that he may want to ask if the stuff is injected in the underside of the neck to nerve block the breathing aparatus.

[Barry Irwin]

Where and when did I ever say anything about this drug not being used to enhance performance and just who are you to impune my sincerity?

[richiebee]

Mr Irwin:

   Who am I to impugn your integrity? I believe the answer might be that in the scheme of racing, I am an anonymous recreational horseplayer who has the additional perspective of a few years on the backside a long time ago. I guess the answer is that I am \"NOBODY\".

   You, sir, on the other hand are SOMEBODY. Your Team Valor operation, along with Cot Campbell\'s Dogwood operation, were pioneers in the syndication of quality horseflesh. As more and more of the blueblooded owner/breeders exit the game, the way that these syndicates operate is filling a void in a game which has more than enough problems.

   I will review the history of my problem with what I believe is a bit of hypocrisy on your part. You hired a young midwestern trainer and turned over a string of horses to him. Soon after he began working for you, he ran afoul of state racing authorities on a medication issue. You made a well reasoned and widely distributed announcement that Team Valor had a zero tolerance stance on illegal medications. You relieved this young trainer of his duties (I believe you eventually rehired this young trainer). I felt bad for the young trainer but felt that your stance was admirable.

   Fast forward to the opening of the 2005 Saratoga meet. You were gracious enough to tip us off to a Team Valor runner who had undergone a procedure for an entrapped epiglottis. At the time, I couldn\'t help but ask you why a Ralph (?)Nicks gets canned but a Todd Pletcher who has a Mepivocaine suspension pending on appeal (since 2004!) continued to train Team V horses. And the argument went around and around regarding the differences betwen the two positives and the relative harmlessness of Mepivocaine.

   My point at the time, and now, Mr. Irwin, is that zero tolerance can mean only one thing. You had a chance to make a huge statement by pulling the Team V string from Todd Pletcher until his medication issues were resolved. It would have been the first time that I can recall that SOMEBODY took horses away from a very high profile trainer on the basis of zero tolerance towards prohibited medication. It would have been a very strong statement

  I also made the point that I thought that it was ironic that PVal was aboard a major Team V winner north of the border, but I do not care to argue the distinctions between human drug use (a disease?) and equine medication positives.

  We both love racing, Mr. Irwin, but you rely on it for your livelihood. You are SOMEBODY who can make a difference with regards to some of racing\'s issues. In my opinion, you missed an opportunity to make a statement that probably needed to be made; the fact that you missed this opportunity does not undermine your integrity in any way, but gives me the right to question your commitment to drug free racing.

  I appreciate your willingness to discuss racing issues on this forum.

[BitPlayer]

Richie -

I looked back at the December 2005 exchange you are discussing.  What Barry Irwin said at that time was that, based on his discussion with vets, Pletcher\'s positive looked like a case of contamination and not an intentional violation of the rules to gain an advantage (although he did not describe the underlying facts that led him to that conclusion).  I didn\'t read everything, but I don\'t think he said that mepivicaine was harmless or could not be used to enhance performance.