Drugs and Modern Sports

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have put Shug on my \"all clean\" team, certainly
> a man whose position with the Phipps family gives
> him access to great bloodlines (CTC may take
> exception to this) and the time necessary to
> develop his runners the old fashioned way.

If they all trained like Shug, we\'d have far fewer worries. The Phipps Band still has what is probably the best batch of mares in America. I was never enamored with how many times they sent them to Danzig, Mr. Prospector and Storm Cat though.

This one has some of the that questionable breeding, but shes also got some breeding to compensate for it. Mr. Prospector is a better influence diluted. Never liked him as the sire, but as a grandsire or more remote he can help a pedigree.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/pine+island

[NoCarolinaTony]

Dear Bob,

I am personally tired of your lame and useless analogies. Always making the extreme assertions if A then B must also be true. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Please stop talking out of both sides of your mouth BOB.I do not want horses HURT nor JOCKEYS hurt. For you to insinuate that is offensive to me.

Racing is SMALL POTATOES on the national scale, something you just can\'t accept. It has niche TV spots, Niche Radio spots, and rare newspaper coverage. If it wasn\'t for the Derby and BC, and Barbaro\'s injury of all things, to get national exposure for racing.

IF YOU HAVE FACTS ABOUT ILLEGAL DRUGGING  of horses which could lead to potential injury to horses and jockey\'s, HERE IS ELLIOT SPITZERS ADDRESS TO WRITE TO: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html

Provide him all your details and facts that you have.


Me thinks, if you want to get someone attention, at least in THIS GAME,take their money away.That is the only way bettors can make a statement to the various racing circuits etc. So write your attorney general but he would need facts to work with, he can\'t prosecute inuendo.If it was that blatant or aggregious, you would think someone down the line who\'s has worked for the \"guilty trainers\" would have written a book, or sold the story for money. Hey maybe call that dateline guy who does the online predator stuff and get him on the case too.

If you\'re really offended don\'t support the product.

Since I choose to continue to wager, I undestand the current platform. I don\'t have facts as some on this board obviously do. If you got the data do the right thing.


NC Tony

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Jeez Tony,

I read Bob\'s post and he merely made a point that some do care and he outlined a strategy for cleaning up crooked jurisdictions. How can one argue or attack that? I won\'t bet Turfway or Keeneland again because of poly nonsense. Why not apply that betting discipline to juice jurisdicitions?

NoCarolinaTony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Bob,
>
> I am personally tired of your lame and useless
> analogies. Always making the extreme assertions if
> A then B must also be true. GIVE ME A BREAK.
>
> Please stop talking out of both sides of your
> mouth BOB.I do not want horses HURT nor JOCKEYS
> hurt. For you to insinuate that is offensive to
> me.
>
> Racing is SMALL POTATOES on the national scale,
> something you just can\'t accept. It has niche TV
> spots, Niche Radio spots, and rare newspaper
> coverage. If it wasn\'t for the Derby and BC, and
> Barbaro\'s injury of all things, to get national
> exposure for racing.
>
> IF YOU HAVE FACTS ABOUT ILLEGAL DRUGGING  of
> horses which could lead to potential injury to
> horses and jockey\'s, HERE IS ELLIOT SPITZERS
> ADDRESS TO WRITE TO:
>
> Provide him all your details and facts that you
> have.
>
>
> Me thinks, if you want to get someone attention,
> at least in THIS GAME,take their money away.That
> is the only way bettors can make a statement to
> the various racing circuits etc. So write your
> attorney general but he would need facts to work
> with, he can\'t prosecute inuendo.If it was that
> blatant or aggregious, you would think someone
> down the line who\'s has worked for the \"guilty
> trainers\" would have written a book, or sold the
> story for money. Hey maybe call that dateline guy
> who does the online predator stuff and get him on
> the case too.
>
> If you\'re really offended don\'t support the
> product.
>
> Since I choose to continue to wager, I undestand
> the current platform. I don\'t have facts as some
> on this board obviously do. If you got the data do
> the right thing.
>
>
> NC Tony
>
>
>

[NoCarolinaTony]

Ctc,

Thats what I am saying- apply the same betting diciplne to juicing jurisdictions and the loss of money might get someone attention.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

Ctc,

I will play Polytrack tracks. I don\'t see much difference, and I do see that the TG numbers hold up well at TP. You do need to watch it for a while and that may be astute on your part, but taking yesterday as an example, TP figs held well and with value (for the most part).

NC Tony

[davidrex]

Ladies and Gents:
NCT puts into words,what I\'ve always wish I could say in correspondence.
There was a time when I bet all venues that had a decent size handle.
Today,I only wager on the more \"important\" races.
For racing to clean up,and the gambler to stop betting, is ludicrous.
Laws have never stopped the cheating,rather it would escalate the take-out where we would be cheating ourselves.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

NoCarolinaTony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ctc,
>
> I will play Polytrack tracks. I don\'t see much
> difference, and I do see that the TG numbers hold
> up well at TP. You do need to watch it for a while
> and that may be astute on your part, but taking
> yesterday as an example, TP figs held well and
> with value (for the most part).
>
> NC Tony
>
>

Understanding that Grass racing is the origin of the game, I am a dirt traditionalist. Dirt racing is American and I\'m a horseracing Patriot. There's a lot more to it than that, but thats saying enough for a quick explanation.

I\'ve also lost in my Polytrack forays. Remember the winner of the Lane\'s End last year? I couldn\'t have come up with that horse if my life depended upon it. Now, it just so happens that Eastern polytrack is synonymous with one of Horse racings more crooked juicing jurisdictions and by foregoing Polytrack in Kentucky, I\'m killing two birds with one stone.  (Note that Lane's End winner was offered for 50K shares immediately after the race and is now Dead. Last I heard, they didn't know why he died. Granted they are strawberries, but I'm skeptical.)

I also don't want to take the time to make monopoly money wagers on Polytrack. It's principle. It's Patriotism.

[miff]

Racing does not need more laws, it needs supertesting, stiff enforcement penalties, forfeiture of assets and jail time.

[miff]

Tony,

I understand your feelings re poly but I won\'t be betting on that surface until I am very comfortable. That may never happen.I\'ve posted before but believe me there are many whales that will NOT be putting their money on poly racing.

NYRA is the only venue that I know which is carefully navigating the poly issue.The excuse about safety is more a ruse by racetrack operators. Breakdowns will be far less if they stop allowing animals to be pumped full of illegal stuff that gives them a utopian feeling as they rip their bodies up without sensing it.


If poly can be made to mirror dirt somehow, then it would be ok. I don\'t know if that\'s possible or even being contemplated.Many horsemen have told me that they just don\'t know how a horse will hit, plant, expand on that stuff. Horsemen who have trained and raced on it give it a thumbs up and some love it.

Mike

[NoCarolinaTony]

Ctc and Miff,

I do truly understand the traditionalist and comfort zone of staying with what you know vis a vis the unknown.It is your money after all, and you\'ve got to do what you feel is best for yourself.

I\'ve been taping and watching the TP replays last year and so far this year trying to find any trends,correlations etc.

Again and maybe I\'m wrong here, but since they Powers that be,especially the likes of KEENELAND and SOCAL are all going \"Snythetic\" or poly derivative (two of the top 4 major circuits), have already made the radical jump to poly, I might as well \"bone up on it\" as opposed to declaring it persona non grata.

So with that being said, I\'ll be at Keeneland Opening day, risking life,limb, a few bettor dollars and straining my eyes on some of the UK ladies that attend the meet. If I could only write what I saw last year there...

Seriously I think the opening week at Keeneland there will be a lot of money bet on the old Keeneland Bias out of of stubborn habit, or people betting simulcast money forgetting KEE went poly early on, and find a few overlays early on in the meet. MAYBE I am being too optimistic.

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=35286

[TGJB]

Bob-- with all due respect, that outfit and their rules are besides the point. There are rules in place now. Until samples are being frozen and CO2 levels published (just for starters), nobody is serious about nothing.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Just a different point of view ....


http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=78657

NC Tony

[P-Dub]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Baseball Note: All I have heard from some of my
> bartender friends lately is how much extra money
> they are going to make in October as the Mets and
> Yanks advance through the playoffs towards a
> Subway Series which everyone in NY is treating as
> a \"lock\".
>
> But they play the games on the field, and imagine
> the emotional (and financial)devastation if both
> Mets and Yanks tank in the early stages,and we end
> up with a rematch of the 1984 World Series
> (Padres/Tigers).


First talk about West Coast 2YOs winning the BC, next possibly the NY teams not making the WS?  Richie, are you OK??

Life does exist west of the Mississippi. I know many East Coasters don\'t like to be bothered with us out here. If you\'re out in the Bay Area next month, maybe I\'ll take you to Gm 1 of the Series. Pitching and defense still count for something. Hopefully against the Mets, since JB loves them ( not to mention he loves \"The Shield\" too.)  

[bobphilo]

Tony,

Very well, since analogies are over your head, I will put it to you in simple direct terms that even you can understand. Juicing trainers are racing horses on the verge of breaking down with painkillers that enable them to dangerously run through the pain which nature designed to save their lives. In other words they are sending out living time bombs, risking the lives of both them and their jockeys. I personally know someone who rescues and adopts retired racers whose bodies and legs have been ravaged by the drug use you so naively defend. I wish you would stop your minimizing the effects of such practices until you see these poor creatures.
Of course any time money is involved, there will always be scum that will stop at nothing for an unfair advantage. How you can conclude from this that any attempt to stop, or at least minimize this, is a mistake is beyond me. But then I forget, you feel you've found a way to profit from it, so it's alright.  
Every time a concerned poster calls for something to be done about this you ridicule or vilify them. What's worse, rather than proposing or supporting a solution you come out against any attempt to stop this immoral activity, you actively oppose any such intervention and arrogantly state that you are "having fun" with the way things are now. By all means, let's cease all attempts to shut down these bastards since we all know that all that matters is your how much fun you have in cashing in on these evil practices. Shame.

Bob