Drugs and Modern Sports

[Uncle Buck]

The entire modern sports world is on juice. Can you compete in any sport without juice? Hell no.

Horses -  some claimed for $50,000K run 120 Beyers on the juice, see Lava Man or any horse Dutrow runs.
NFL Players - the league\'s drug testing policy can\'t detect HGH. Have you seen the size of these guys lately? Somebody is going to die soon in this league as a direct result of HGH.
Olympic Sprinters - Are any clean? Nope
Cyclists - Lance Armstrong wasn\'t juiced to win the Tour D\' France 7 times? Come on man!
Baseball - We know they\'re juiced. Bonds on Cow \'Roids. Nice. Giambi even pulled up his shirt in supreme court to show the hi-sheriff\'s where and how he stuck in the needle.


So I guess my point is...why bother trying to clean it up? It\'s all beyond control.

If I owned a racehorse, or a football franchise, I would encourage my trainer or my players to use juice if they wanted to. You simply can\'t win, or even compete in today\'s arena without drugs.

Sad but true

[bobphilo]

Oh I see. If there were a big crime wave and a lot of robberies going on, if I had children, I should therefore teach them to go out and steal.
There is such a thing as right and wrong, you know.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Finding an \"edge\", perhaps even a \"chemical edge\" has undoubtedly been going on for many years. However, there is a clear threat of public distrust in the game at a time when the fan base is stagnate at best and shrinking at worst. The powers that be risk a loss of trust if they do nothing. A similar loss of trust exists in Washington D.C. Are those losses of trust fatal or critical? Its hard to say, but regardless they are not positive. Those that can do the right thing had better take note of the situation. That goes for both Horseracing and Washington D.C.

Everyone around Lance Armstrong has made admissions, leveled charges or questioned his credibility. That loss of trust includes samples that were tested with new technology. Anyone notice that Lance Armstrong always sounds like a defense attorney? That is certainly not a positive,. However, we don\'t have to worry about losing a bet on Lance, unless we are foolish enough to believe his sports \"prowess\" makes him a good government servant.

Uncle Buck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The entire modern sports world is on juice. Can
> you compete in any sport without juice? Hell no.
>
> Horses -  some claimed for $50,000K run 120 Beyers
> on the juice, see Lava Man or any horse Dutrow
> runs.
> NFL Players - the league\'s drug testing policy
> can\'t detect HGH. Have you seen the size of these
> guys lately? Somebody is going to die soon in this
> league as a direct result of HGH.
> Olympic Sprinters - Are any clean? Nope
> Cyclists - Lance Armstrong wasn\'t juiced to win
> the Tour D\' France 7 times? Come on man!
> Baseball - We know they\'re juiced. Bonds on Cow
> \'Roids. Nice. Giambi even pulled up his shirt in
> supreme court to show the hi-sheriff\'s where and
> how he stuck in the needle.
>
>
> So I guess my point is...why bother trying to
> clean it up? It\'s all beyond control.
>
> If I owned a racehorse, or a football franchise, I
> would encourage my trainer or my players to use
> juice if they wanted to. You simply can\'t win, or
> even compete in today\'s arena without drugs.
>
> Sad but true
>
>
>
>
>

[Uncle Buck]

The point I was making is, unless the governing body of the sport, the NTRA, the NYRA, the CTBA or others get off their ass and enforce major penalties for trainers who cheat,like lifetime bans etc.,  what\'s the point of playing fair if you\'re a current horse owner? You can\'t win consistently unless you cheat in horse racing and all the other poisoned sports I mentioned. That\'s why I mentioned them

[davidrex]

The last BIG crime wave we had was called Hurricane Katrina.
Remember the two photos and the captions under them accusing people of a certain \"ilk\" stealing food,while the \"other\" was just borrowing!
Anyway if you guys handicap half as good as me ...you\'d teach your kids to steal too!

[bobphilo]

Uncle Buck,

Thanks for clarifying your position. My point was that even if a lot of the cheaters get away with it, the authorities should still try to catch as many as they can. With horse racing there\'s an additional moral issue involved in addition to the cheating, in that unlike human atletes taking drugs and endangering their health at their own will, the horses have no such choice.

Bob

[marcus]

We are in the post-apathy stage w/ the juicing isssue , so what your saying is indeed sad but also equally ironic . The results are in and All of these juicers have seen and experienced the enormous downside from their actions .  

[Barry Irwin]

Although Uncle Buck got off on the wrong foot, his second post was very much to the point.

The sad fact is that some major racing jusisdictions still believe in talking a good game but doing little to nail cheaters, because they really believe that if some famous trainers are caught, it will be bad for racing.

Nothing could be further from the truth, yet the folks that run racing still subscribes in large part to this b. s.

Until racing jurisdictions get serious police involved, like the FBI, catch cheaters with the goods and then prosecute the bad guys so hard that they are gone from the sport, nothing much will change.

[bobphilo]

Barry,

Amen to what you say. It\'s too bad, however,that the post that got Uncle Buck to clarify his position was not worthy of mention. I quess posts that deal with moral issues are \"uncool\" despite their good effects.

Local racing commisions are too afriad to offend their marque trainers to deal with cheaters properly. That\'s why we need the Justice Dept to do the job for which we pay taxes and go after the criminals - which these guys are.

Bob

[Boscar Obarra]

 dudez, the only way they are gonna do a dang thing about it is if YOU STOP BETTING.

  any takers?

[NoCarolinaTony]

Boscar,

This conversations been had all to often on this board, and we rehash the same ole same ole, only every 30-45 days or so. The only way to get racing establishment to stop allowing the illegal druging of race horses, is for the masses to  stop betting, but most of the us will not do that. I am in that camp.

Until the industry makes changes I wager knowing how the game is being played today.

Bobphilo, is the racing drug scandle really \"that bad\" that it makes the top 10 list of concerns of the FBI,State Dept, etc etc. I doubt it, especially in light that racing is \"a\" source of income to the states.

Racing - the hard core part of it anyway, is a mini subculture in America, and no one else really pays much attention to it.

NC Tony

[richiebee]

Agreed, NCT, this thread sounds familiar.

But throughout the thread, no one has mentioned that the leading trainer in the US in number of wins over the last few years is currently serving a six month suspension. The reason that this suspension is not mentioned is that this trainer\'s operation continues to grind along in the names of assistant trainers who are no doubt in constant contact with their boss via phone, fax and email.

My point is that when the cheaters are identified, the punishments meted out have to be a little more Draconian, to use one of TGJB\'s favorite words.

I monitored with interest a previous exchange between you and Boscar; in that exchange, Boscar accused Shug McGaughey of using performance enhancing drugs. You quickly and properly pointed out that BO had made a fairly irresponsible allegation.

I have put Shug on my \"all clean\" team, certainly a man whose position with the Phipps family gives him access to great bloodlines (CTC may take exception to this) and the time necessary to develop his runners the old fashioned way.

To be fair however, I have noticed that a lot of Shug\'s horses have moved up dramatically in the past 3 months (of course I have not been reading TGs every racing day). Maybe someone at TG has been on top of this-- I guess I can check Shug\'s trainer stats off Good Reward\'s T-graph in the Redboard Room.

Baseball Note: All I have heard from some of my bartender friends lately is how much extra money they are going to make in October as the Mets and Yanks advance through the playoffs towards a Subway Series which everyone in NY is treating as a \"lock\".

But they play the games on the field, and imagine the emotional (and financial)devastation if both Mets and Yanks tank in the early stages,and we end up with a rematch of the 1984 World Series (Padres/Tigers).

[NoCarolinaTony]

Richie-

Sorry I missed you up at the SPA on twilight zone day.

First, I am not a SHUG apologist,agent, or fan club president for that matter..but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn express last night.... I can say with confidence, the man has been as consistent as the day is 24 hours. He does get BLUE CHIP stock, but his patterns are very predictable. The man gears his stable up for  Saratoga, Belmont Fall, BC races, then he winds them down. His last 90 days are not much different than total history, more pair ups vs x\'s perhaps you  might say. He has always spoted his horses well, unlike lets say DWayne.


Anyway, \"IF\" the big drug scandal does hit racing, and it does get\'s the national media attention, How many race tracks fall and shut down? Does the industry survive? Can it be done in a way to allow racing to survive? Will the zealots kill parimutuel wagering as a result? How bout PETA pickets?

All I say to \"you all\" is be careful what you wish for..you might not like to result.

The names may change from Generation to Generation, but the games, the drugs have always been part of this industry. What is newer to the game is the 2yo in training sales, who have those babies look so roided out at such a young age so they can run out of there skin a reap a quick return on investment. We really get down on trainers on this site, but what about those oh so reputable Breeders?

Oops now we can\'t go there

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

To say that the only way to stop illegal drugging of horses is for everyone to stop betting is like saying the only way to stop muggings is to keep people from going out of their houses. Juicing is both a crime of fraud and abuse of animals for which we have a Dept of Justice to deal with. Considering the millions of dollars racing generates and the effects of what happens on the track to the even bigger breeding industry argues against the position that the problem is too "small potatoes" to interest law enforcement.
As for the effects of some kind of bettor boycott, While everyone must make their own moral choices, I personally would have no trouble playing one track less that was guilty of the worst derelictions of duty with regard to the protection of horses and public. It's sad that the suffering and risk to both horses and riders is of no concern to some that would not even make the most meager sacrifice to protect their profits earned by the misery of others.

Bob

[richiebee]

NCT:

    Good point about Shug. He was virtually shut out in Florida, gained momentum at Aqueduct and seemed to peak late at the Spa.

    All we need to know about twilight zone day is that in the late P3 I had Dr. Bloomer ($30) in leg 1, Inca is Calling (?) ($15)in the 3rd Leg, and ran 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th in the With Anticipation Stakes (2nd leg), losing to a Hushion maiden. As Steve Serby used to say in the NY Post \"and thats why they call me Mr. Loser\"