Drugs and Modern Sports

[BitPlayer]

Richie and Miff -

You guys are a lot closer to the business than I am, so you may be able to answer a question that\'s been puzzling me.  Given the far-flung operations of some of the suspect trainers and the number of employees that presumably pass through their barns, how do they keep what they\'re doing a secret?  To achieve consistent results, the suspect trainers would need to apply their methods on a regular basis, so it seems unlikely that it\'s something that they do personally or that\'s done by a single vet.  You would expect that at some point a competing trainer or disgruntled employee would blow the whistle.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Bit

My Point exactly. It\'s not like their entire employee base is flush with cash. You would think a bribe, a payoff for a story etc would have all been explored by now. And with all of the benefits of the Patriot act in play, they could have cought someone by now.They found those guys in NJ using EPO. Guess it\'s a matter of desire.

While traditionalist would like to believe this, I doubt they ever had entire fields that just ran on hay oats and water alone for decades at least since the 60\'s and probably further back than that, when they didn\'t test at all.

NC Tony

[miff]

Bit,

A good question and a puzzler.The scrutiny on certain trainers in NY is intense.Equally puzzling is that there are really no \"secrets\" on what one can legally do with a horse. The results achieved by a handful of trainers defy common sense and logic when measured against conventional horse racing results over many years.Over the years we\'ve have seen the new boot,breathing nebulizers, hyperbolic (sp) chambers and on and on.Give me a break, nothing works so many times.The idea that a few trainers have found the \"key\" to training is absurd.The idea that no one has dropped a dime is also absurd, I agree.

A successful owner with a supertrainer told me that \"time\" was the key. He explained that his horses only ran when they were as \"right\" as could be and he never pressures his trainer to race his horses like other owners often do.He intimated that I would find that to be the case with most so called supertrainers then named Frankel, Pletcher, Mott?? and Dutrow.So, spacing is everything?

A Vet at the Spa defended the new supertrainers as both innovative and technologically more savvy than the old school guys.She proceeded to list things and equipment. The problem is that MANY trainers use those same aides and do not come close to achieving what the supertrainers do, with comparable stock. How come?

There is no doubt that some underachieving trainers use the drug thing to deflect criticism from their owners but when Hall of Fame guys whisper about juicing, I defer.I am no longer certain who is a good horseman. I now just concentrate on who wins and who don\'t.

Unless they catch people,those who argue that certain guys are just better trainers are right and I\'m wrong.I could ramble on about this but it\'s not about the TG product so I won\'t.

Mike

[bellsbendboy]

Miff

One thing the supertrainers have is numbers. Since about half of the horses stabled at a track are maidens, and three quarters of the horses have won once only, most of the races are for these types.  The supertrainers always have a horse that \"fits\".

A solid approach I use is look for supertrainers without large stables. In NY, Kimmel,Tagg, Bond, Dickinson et. al., are terriffic conditioners who win their fair share and offer value.

TG offers many useful trainer stats. BBB

[Barry Irwin]

Nice try.

And cute, too.

But riduculous.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Can you elaborate on that some...as to why? Why just because you say so is a little lame don\'t you think?

Nc Tony

[Barry Irwin]

I like Steve Crist and appreciate everything he has done for the betterment of DRF.

But I think his column may be a case of figures don\'t lie, but liars figure.

First of all, his analysis does not deal with cheating or cheaters.

A lot of what he pointed out has some merit.

But the reason Charlie Whittingham had a low win percentage was not based on the fact that he trained a lot of homebreds for breeders, but what he did with those homebreds. Charlie Whittingham (and he was not alone by any stretch of the imagination, had a habit of using these animals to set up betting coups. Charlie, like a lot of oldtimers, would have his youngsters held until he wanted them exposed, an event that usually coincided with a bet he was making.

Charlie could justify the holding of horses as \"schooling,\" so that when they were finally let loose and won, they would be ready to advance to the next level. God forbid Whittingham should ever allow a horse to win first time out and force it to run against winners before it had been properly seasoned.

I will never forget the day Whittingham shocked the Southern California racing community when he won first with two first-time starting fillies at Hollywood Park.

Racing has changed from those days. A guy like Todd Pletcher wants to win first time out. Why? Because ever since DRF started publishing trainer stats, all trainers want to have high win percentages. It happens to be good for business.

Also, today\'s game is more about development of horses and winning and making money with purses, not about holding horses and cashing bets.

Except, of course, for those outfits in which the owners are pure gamblers and their trainers are supplied with illegal performance enhancing designer drugs to insure spectacular results.

The magic continues to be worked in New York and California, and Texas, and in the Bay Area by expert practitioners of the black arts.

But one of these day--and I personally hope I live long enough to see it--the FBI will get their act together, start focusing on racing because it involves inter-state gambling, and close out the cheaters.

Then some of them can go back to harness racing where they belong.

[Thehoarsehorseplayer]

As Edward Gibbons has pointed out in his momumental work, \'The Decline and Fall of the Racing Empire,\" the noble  Sport of Kings could not have been plundered and pillaged by the one armed bandits and casino sharpies of the day if a once eager reformer who ran the  most prominent information outlet of the day had not allowed his publication to become overbloated and stagnant, complacent and complicit.

That if he had used the bully pulpit to call for reforms or at least thorough investigations to put an end to all the corrosive speculation surrounding the industry he could have prevented the bulldozers at the gate from having their way.

Instead he chose to be an appeaser, knowing that his own financial interests were best served by serving the establishment rather than advocating for the best interest of his readership.

Such is the way of all flash.

[miff]

Barry,

I noticed that you did not mention Kentucky and Florida as places where the \"magic\" takes place. I am pure New York and was just wondering if you were just naming a few venues or you purposely left out Kentucky and Florida.

Only hearsay, but Kentucky is lengendary for illegal stuff too, no?

Mike

[NoCarolinaTony]

Gents,

Now we may be getting somewhere here, provided what is discussed is true and sincere. Anything else would be a waste.

Thanks for being open Barry.

NC Tony

[NoCarolinaTony]

IT\'s  not \"just\" drugs that ailes this industry. It goes much deeper than just drugs.
Doesn\'t mean I still can\'t enjoy plaing the sport despite all of that. Crist does bring up some interesting pieces of data that never seem to be discussed either. It is closing in from both sides. Someone better wake up pretty soon otherwise the game I enjoy playing may not be around as long as I hope to be able to play it.

Who really runs racing?

Wish I didn\'t enjoy the puzzle so much.

NC Tony

[1st time lasix]

 Wishful thinking....enhancement drugs and blood doping  in racing are not going away. In fact they are leading the way. Far in advance of the detection side of things. Many serious players now prefer to use trainer angles{drug angles} than any other form of handicapping. Way too much money to be gained by vets, trainers, owners and the race tracks and not enough to lose should the cheaters get caught. The rewards outweigh the risks. Until that is changed...the whining and the articles that appear in racing publications every four or five months will not do a darn thing to change the status quo.

[TGJB]

Tony-- too busy to get into a long conversation about this, but you raise a crucial question.: who runs the racing industry. The answer is, the tail wags the dog.

The breeding industry is in actuality a seperate industry. The better they do (higher prices), the worse for those in the industry (higher cost of doing business). Yet, take a look at the make-up of the NTRA/Breeder\'s Cup/TOBA, the closest things we have to national organizations with any clout. They are extremely loaded with Kentuckians, either breeders or those closely aligned with them (grew up with, went to school with them).

Then there\'s the issue of oversight jobs, licenses, etc., being given out on a patronage basis, not on merit, by the states.

What drives decisions in this business are things that have nothing to do with the success of the business itself or the welfare of those involved in it. Which is why the business has gone in the crapper.

I\'m a Libertarian. But if there was ever an industry that cried out for Federal oversight it\'s this one-- to protect the interests of the bettors in the same way the government protects stockholders.

Alternatively, there is this, which I brought up 15 years ago-- a national organization representing bettors. Several here have mentioned how a short boycott a few years ago changed things-- imagine what an organized effort could accomplish.

[Michael D.]

bush justice dept? if they got involved they would be more likely to ban the sport than clean it up. fbi? did they catch the anthrax dude yet? head of the taliban?

congress? they tried horse slaughter, sent the wrong friggin bill to the floor, and have now scrapped the whole deal until next year. think they are passing any meaningful legislation to protect bettors?

best bet is state prosecutors, but unless you get a NYT front page type scandal, it\'s unlikely enough funds are heading in this direction.

it\'s just not that important to the average guy out there.

[Barry Irwin]

Federal oversight--I agree totally.

It is the only way to have any sort of cohesiveness the sport so desperately requires to move forward.

First we need Hoovers men to clean the carpet (how\'s that for a double metaphor?).