I was thinking Hard Spun was very much like Lure.  

Awesome \"in your face\" speed, by Danzig, precocious speed on the dirt at 2.... Hard Spun\'s maternal grandma, Chappaquiddick, threw his mom Endear who was a Grade 1 dirt winner...she also threw Tiller who won and competed in just about every important distance turf race on the east and west coasts.  Chappaquiddick\'s dad, Relic, won French broodmare sire of the year in the mid 60s.

The makings are all there for Hard Spun to rage on the turf.  I know the owners are pointing to the King\'s Bishop, which is a hellishly tough race on a horse.  The Jamaica is 9f for $300k.... why not find out what you really have and ship for the G1 $1 million Woodbine Mile?  Love to see him cruising on the lead with those wide, sweeping turns.  Otherwise, skip the Jamaica, and run in the one mile Kelso like Lure.


bellsbendboy Wrote:
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> Could not agree more with your assessment of Hard
> Spun.  Would add that his immediate family
> includes several champions including Little
> Current, Chateaugay and Primonetta. He has classic
> turf action and like his sire Danzig will probably
> never try turf.
>
> The fall, turf, Grade I\'s at Belmont are The Man O
> War at eleven panels and the Joe Hirsch at twelve,
> both for 3yo\'s and up.  Darley bought the breeding
> rights and may want a graded win on turf.  The
> logical spots would be the Jamaica, Grade II,
> restricted to 3yo\'s going nine furlongs October
> 6th,  or perhaps a stab at the Shadwell at
> Keeneland the following week going a mile against
> serious competition.
>
> The latter spot may set him up for a spin in the
> Breeders Cup mile which would lead to comparisons
> of a very similar sophomore, 2000 Mile winner War
> Chant who is also by Danzig, also out of a
> stakeswinning mare whose maternal grandsire is
> Roberto.  BBB

Bally Ache Wrote:
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> Wasn\'t Bay Meadows already given an exemption?
> Couldn\'t they be given another if they decided
> they wanted to remain in business?  


Kinda... sorta...

http://www.sacbee.com/362/story/231811.html

Chuckles_the_Clown2 Wrote:
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> I\'m not sure what the status of Golden Gate Fields
> is.

Golden Gate Fields is installing a Tapeta surface, the same one used by Dickinson at his training facility.  It is currently used on several training tracks.  GGF will be the first track in the world to have Tapeta installed for regular racing.

http://www.goldengatefields.com/NewsEvents/FeatureStories/Details/GGF.htm

scavsiu8 Wrote:
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> I have heard off the turf, if this is the case, I
> will have the off the turf ranking done sometime
> late this afternoon


Correct.  As of 1115 AM NYRA.com notes turf is OFF, track is muddy and SEALED. There are no actual scratches posted yet, but there have been distance changes...

R1  now 9f
R6  now 7f
R7  now 9f
R10 now 9f

jbelfior Wrote:
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> The rail horse had no excuse. More money burned by
> one of the great overrated trainers of all
> time---Dermot Weld.
>
>
> Good Luck,
> Joe B.

Huh?  Two Melbourne Cups (only Northern Hemisphere trainer to win), Vinnie Roe wins FOUR straight St. Legers, off the top of my head I know he\'s won the Matriarch, American Oaks, American Derby, Tattersalls Gold Cup, 2000 Guineas, 1000 Guineas, Flower Bowl, Irish Derby, Belmont, Jim Murray... and I\'m certain there\'s more.

Is he supposed to win 100% of the time?  Geez... he\'s a sportsman willing to ship anywhere in the world to take a shot at a big prize whether it\'s Europe, America, Asia, or Australia.

Uncle Buck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my book, figures are figures no matter who
> you\'re running against. The horse went out and ran
> the figures in graded company and won when he
> could which was more than a lot of other animals
> have done.
>
> So if he does go to Louisville in November and is
> going off at 4-1, which one of you wouldn\'t bet on
> him?


You can\'t be serious.... I wouldn\'t bet this horse at 15-1. Graded company... give me a break - he beat 3 yos last year, nothing else worthwhile. Got beaten at home first out this year, didn\'t want to face Carthage again so he beats a small field at CD (I don\'t care what his figure was) and ships to CRC because the trainer/owner didn\'t want Silver Train at BEL or any horse in SoCal (he wouldn\'t get a sniff of Surf Cat).

Managed well... absolutely, but so was Hallowed Dreams.  Just because there are a lot of 1s next to your name doesn\'t make you great. He has run five times against older horses with two wins, a second, and two flops.  That tells the story.

One of the most ridiculously overhyped, overbet horses in the past 10 years... won an Eclipse without beating a decent horse:

Champion sprinter LOST IN THE FOG (Lost Soldier), who finished a disappointing ninth in Saturday\'s Smile Sprint H. (G2) at Calder, will be given a rest and could possibly be retired, trainer Greg Gilchrist told Daily Racing Form. \"We\'re not leaning one way or the other,\" Gilchrist said. \"We\'ll give him time to get his feet underneath him and see how he is. We want to determine if he can be competitive at the level he should be. If it were going to take two or three months to bring him back, and there was only one race left for him this year, we\'d probably retire him.\" Lost in the Fog lugged top weight of 125 pounds in the Smile. \"You can\'t put a positive spin on it,\" Gilchrist said. \"It\'s the first time I\'ve seen him not try. He carried a lot of weight, but that had nothing to do with running that poorly.\"...

1st time lasix Wrote:
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> In the East they love the tradition and the
> quality of the Spa....in the west they love the
> pagentry and style where the surf meets the turf.


If you are going to sit on your butt and bet TVG then SAR is your gig.  

If you are going for the setting, the weather, the ambiance, then DMR wins hands down. There is never a worry about rain, heat, humidity, etc.... knowing it will be 75 - 80 degrees and sunny without ridiculous crowds, overpriced hotels and food, and overwhelming traffic, then DMR is king.

I\'ve been to both... and for the on-track experience, DMR wins...easily.

NoCarolinaTony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EZ
>
> Perfect Drift and Win --- what an OXYmoron.
>
> NC Tony


I know... it\'s complete torture, but I\'ve been playing him blindly since the 2002 Spiral Stakes. He\'s everything a racehorse should be - sturdy, runs in top company, has traveled from coast to coast with many stops in between. He\'s shown up at TP, CD, BEL, HOO, AP, HAW, SA, KEE, PrM, SAR, DMR, & LS. Drifty has never been injured other than getting hit in the eye with a dirt clod. He\'ll run eight races again this year... Washington Park Handicap is next, followed by Pacific Classic, HAW Gold Cup, BC Classic, and Clark Hcp.

He\'s sure had some heartbreakers...the last was definitely the worst of all... at 11-1.  With a line of 38 - 11 - 11 - 6  $4.47 million, there isn\'t a person on this list (including Graph Racing) who wouldn\'t give a nut to own him....I understand horse racing is about winning, but being a fan of a horse and getting to see him run FORTY times is awesome.

TGJB Wrote:
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> SC-- no, I\'ve already been doing a lot of running
> around the country, and I have a DMR trip and two
> to Saratoga coming up.

JB - I\'m booked for the greatest racing week of my life.  Arlington for Million Day while on business and a family trip to SoCal later that week and will spend Sunday in the DMR infield for the Pacific Classic and another shot to see Perfect Drift win a big race in person.  

Will you be at DMR that day to watch Super Frolic?

JohnTChance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ezgoer89,
>
> Also, in one scenario, the IRS immediately
> withholds 12k of a 48k take. You lawfully report
> it later, perhaps to have some or all of it
> refunded to you. In another scenario, a bettor
> takes the entire 48k home with him, puts it in the
> bank, gets interest on it, and lawfully reports
> the episode later to the IRS. Which scenario is
> better? Personally, I prefer to pay later and take
> the interest.

Well, find me a horseplayer who walks out of a track with $48k and and subsequently places it in the bank to get 3% interest in a six-month CD. Assuming you can find a horseplayer who would do this, you now make about $750 (minus eventual taxes) in interest to take off the $12k bill you owe for the $48k total win.

Let\'s take the more common situation where someone gets to take home the $48k, blows a good part of it, doesn\'t save $12k for taxes, and gets in financial trouble on April 15. That\'s not a good scenario.

Risk v Reward?

JohnTChance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Two points regarding this are made in Steve
> Crist\'s new book, EXOTIC BETTING.
>
> 1. A superfecta that pays $48,000 for $1 will be
> reduced by $12,000 in federal withholding. However
> a dime superfecta that returns $4,800 for 10 cents
> will NOT be subject to withholding because it
> falls below the $5,000 threshold. For this reason,
> superfecta players should consider making their
> bets in dime increments wherever possible. Ask
> your favorite teller  to \"repeat.\" \"Repeat that 10
> times, please.\"

Steven Crist is giving VERY bad advice. This is similar to someone trying to deposit more than $10,000 cash in a bank by coming in Monday through Friday and depositing $2,000 each day... it doesn\'t work.  The Treasury Department is very interested in why you have $10k cash just like the IRS will see that you have multiple tickets bought to specifically avoid the \"at the window\" withholding. Here\'s the law, right from the IRS website:

Identical Wagers
Winnings from identical wagers (for example, two $2 bets on a particular horse to win the same race) are added together for purposes of the reporting and withholding requirements. Also, winnings from identical wagers that are not part of the payment for which the Form W-2G is being prepared are added together for purposes of withholding to determine if the total amount of proceeds from identical wagers is more than $5,000.


I personally know someone who was dumb enough not to report a $2k winner and was subsequently audited and fined.  It\'s not worth the money you\'re trying to save. Take your winnings and be happy.

Did you guys have as radical a change in track conditions as Beyer folks?

From DRF.com:

Strong Contender moved to the head of the Ward/Oxley class with an authoritative 7 3/4-length victory in Tuesday\'s Grade 2, $150,000 Dwyer Stakes. While the time of 1:45.24 was the slowest of 13 Dwyers run at 1 1/16 miles, the performance earned a Beyer Speed Figure of 109.

Mark Hopkins, who makes the Beyer numbers for Belmont, said the track got significantly slower as the day went on. Hopkins said he had to adjust his figures by 32 Beyer points for the last three dirt races.

\"It was one of the most dramatic changes I\'ve ever seen at Belmont,\" said Hopkins, who has made New York figures for 30 years. \"And Belmont has dramatic changes.\"

made up for some of the pain from the Arlington Classic.  Pounded Proudinsky at 8-1... that was painful.

Not only becuase this was Graph Racing... but in 2 yo races, I love a horse who has actually shown she can pass a horse and close lengths.  She was five out in a 4 1/2 furlong race and won. No other horse had closed more than 1/2 length.

Beautiful... what a nice horse with impeccable breeding.