Differences between TG and Rag Derby #s

[tread]

MO, at the end of your last thread you mentioned that Saarland looked to bounce to the moon.  Are you looking at the Ragozin numbers there?  I don\'t have the TG derby package yet, but here is what I know from reading other comments on here.  Others, please add in what you know...

Saarland
--------------
TG - last 2 a pair up
Rag - A 3 point move forward

Buddah
--------------
TG - A backward move off a previous 0.75
Rag - A large forward move ??

I think Jerry also mentioned that Rag had Sunday Break moving forward from an 11 to a 0 and MDoro moving forward from a 6 to a 1.

Saarland\'s performance in the derby should tell pretty conclusively who was right, of course the loser will have a myriad of excuses to choose from like the surgery, for instance.

Buddah will be difficult if he looks like a bounce on Rags because he looks like an 0-2-X on TG, so I don\'t know who could claim victory there.  

Feel free to add other comments...

[MO]

Have yet to see TG figs and I never use the Rags (just horrible and annoying to look at and way too costly for an inferior [looking and content] product)
but I occassionally read their board, so thats probably what I was referring to. If Saarland paired on TG figs and both were career tops, then isn\'t the rule that if one top doesn\'t make a horse bounce, two tops will?
MO

[CensoredJim]

Treadhead, Buddha moved backward, not forward.

[tread]

Jim, thanks for the correction, I wasn\'t sure about that.  

Mark, I\'m not sure I\'m familiar with that rule, especially in 3 yr olds who have never regressed.  If the figure were 2 zeros I would be inclined to agree, but in this case, I\'m not so sure....

[HP]

Saarland has never backed up. That\'s the problem. Are these, in fact, tops, or is the next one the top? That\'s the $64K question on this one as far as I can see. HP

[MO]

Well, given he\'s had the throat surgury, an angle I also used with Alysheba, I guess its safe to say he shouldn\'t be tossed. Maybe I\'ll dutch with Came Home. If both go off at 9-1, it would still be a good bet.

Like I\'ve said before, TG figs and interpretation of them is something I am still relatively new at and since I don\'t bet regularly anymore, each race is a new learning experience for me.

MO

[kev]

First, off Saarland\'s every number he has ran in his life has been a top. If thats the case he should have bounce 4 or 5 times already.

You all need to see the past derby winner\'s or the 2nd place horse in the derby and see how the lines looked. Not all but most of the top horses has either moved forward or paired up or triple up numbers. The best of the three are the pair up horses and the moving forward horses.

Ex. These are the numbers coming right up to the derby. 3yr lines
F. PEGASUS  6.2 4.3 4.3 2.1
APTITUDE    9.2 7.1 5.0
CHARISMATIC 11.3 12.2gd 11.3 8.3 8.3 8.0 3.0
MENIFEE     5.2 5.2 3.3
REAL QUIET  18.2sy 4.1 3.3
VICTORY G.  5.2 5.0
SILVER C.   5.1 5.1 5.2
CAPTAIN B.  8.1 6.0 6.0 4.2
GRINSTONE   8.2 5.2 5.2
CAVONNIER   8.2 8.2 7.0 6.2
THUNDER G.  3.2 3.2 5.2
TEJANO R.   12.2sy 8.0 6.0

Starting from 1982:
The 83\'86\'85\'88\'89\'91\'82\'94\'93\'87\'90\'
winners have all had this line.