Racing Don't Need This!

[P-Dub]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jerry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don\'t consider \"friendly government\"
> subsidized
> > businesses healthy. They\'re on life support.
>
>   \"Friendly government\" was a movie reference.
> Which movie?
>
>    Is your \"life support\" statement an assertion,
> a tenet or an opinion?
>    Where would the Big Three U.S. automakers be
> right now without the help
>    of a friendly government? How about the
> securities and commodities
>    markets?
>  
>
> > And I noticed you seemed to have cherry picked
> some of
> > the boutique venues like Del Mar and the Spa
> > leaving the likes of Belmont off of your list.
> > Ready to throw in the towel on the big sandy
> too?
>
>     My first visit to Belmont was in 1977. Since
> then I have watched attendance
>     dwindle drastically and have watched the
> physical plant deteriorate through
>     neglect; NYRA has done much more to update the
> facilities at Aqueduct and
>     Saratoga. Belmont will be lucky to draw 10,000
> people on its big BC preview
>     days during the Fall meet, so it would be
> irresponsible for me to include
>     Belmont on any list of healthy racing venues,
> even though the relative
>     quality of racing still produces a healthy
> \"all sources\" handle.
>
>     If you wish to continue for a few more rounds,
> some facts or even personal
>     observations would be appreciated.

The Godfather 2

Hyman Roth talking about Cuba.

[richiebee]

jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don\'t know the movie.

Its a rather obscure movie from the 1970s. The \"friendly government\" quote was
made during a scene where a bunch of gentleman are enjoying a birthday cake on
a hotel roof high above an island city.
 
> Feel free to explain to me the difference between
> assertion, tenet and opinion.
>
> The automakers and banks got bridge loans and
> backstops until the credit markets opened back up
> and, in the case of the auto makers, they
> restructured. Racing wishes its problem could be
> solved that easily. (I don\'t know where you\'re
> going with this anyway. You seemed to be arguing
> in favor of survival of the fittest tracks and
> then you trumpet the virtues of \"friendly
> government\" bailouts. Huh?

I am reading this passage over and over and two things concern me:
Firstly, the parenthesis which begin the second sentence never close.
Secondly \"Huh?\" is most frequently used by Ken Sherman, who usually
appears here after his posting privileges are suspended by the Men of Rag.

I was not advocating survival of the fittest in this case, even though it is
probably applicable to racing facilities. I was merely making a point about
some of racing\'s successful venues to counterbalance all the negativity in
this string (ie internet poker killing racing and lack of young blood and new
fans betting the races) (as one gets older, it seems like there are NOTHING BUT
younger people at the track).

To say that \"the automakers and banks got bridge loans and backstops until the
credit markets opened back up\" is confusing in that it implies that a friendly
government had nothing to do with restoring these credit markets, that these
credit markets are somehow cyclical and would have rebounded on their own
volition. But this is not the place to argue or discuss politics; if it was I
would be submitting daily dittys praising NYC Mayor Wilhelm Sharpton -
deBlasio.

Lets return to Racing. Unfriendly and/or apathetic state governments:
Massachusetts (racing dead); Virginia (down to one day of racing per year);
Illinois (racing on the respirator, Illinois bred foal crop now just over 300,
down from a peak of about 1100); and Florida (gone from 3 major racing venues
to 1, and one of the two shuttered facilities, now relegated to poker and
quarter horses, was a very historic venue).

 
> If it\'s not a fact and it\'s not a personal
> observation then what is it? Maybe an assertion, a
> tenet or an opinion.
>
> My original point was simply that tradition does
> matter, maybe not to you, but to general public it
> does. More people watch the triple crown races
> than any other event in horse racing including BC.
> And that\'s a fact.


To me, \"Tradition\" is a song from a beloved Broadway play (hint:
like the \"friendly government\" scene, it also involves a roof).
Prior to the recently concluded Saratoga meet there was a lot of hand
wringing over the changes made to the physical plant. Then a strange
thing happened: the Sun shone, the recreational liquids flowed, the
bettors bet, the bugle blew, the starting gate opened. Acquaintances were
renewed. We all came to realize, I think, that the most important traditions
had been preserved.

Tradition is a bit like cholesterol: there are good traditions and bad
traditions. Fraternity hazing, flying the Confederate flag, female
circumcision, arranged marriage all activities which have been carried on,
sustained partially by what you call \"tradition\". An old racetrack tradition
involved consigning horses who were no longer competitive to the \"killers\" and
thankfully horse lovers from the humble to the most wealthy have pretty much
put an end to this.

I have to stop because I am even boring myself here. There is an outstanding
series of 4 full field stake races to be run over the undulating, irregular
shaped course at quirKY Downs this afternoon, and I intend to watch the early
races to get a sense of exactly how boggy the turf is.

[richiebee]

Outstanding P-Dub. Will be more surprised if you can name Broadway play I mentioned in my response to Jerry.

By the way, I\'m saving room for you on the Mets bandwagon. You can even wear one
of those funky Charley O. Finley Oakland A era softball uniforms.

[richiebee]

JB, what can I say. Just about the time I turned 60, my inner voice went from
Jack McCoy to Adam Schiff....

[Edgorman]

Fiddler on the Roof actually had many songs, besides \"tradition\", from the world of racing.
The Breeders gave us \"matchmaker, matchmaker\"
The punter\'s lament, \"If I Were A Rich Man\".
And of course the constant racetrack buzz of \"The Rumor\".

[moosepalm]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 
>
> Its a rather obscure movie from the 1970s. The
> \"friendly government\" quote was
> made during a scene where a bunch of gentleman are
> enjoying a birthday cake on
> a hotel roof high above an island city.


Just watched that for the umpteenth time with my 18 yr. old daughter before packing her off to college.  It was as close as I could come to passing on fatherly wisdom, particularly the scene near the beginning when Michael explains to the Senator that the two of them really aren\'t that different.

As long as you\'re on a rooftop roll, can you come up with something from \"On the Waterfront?\"  Of course, since it might involve pigeons, it probably wouldn\'t be all that flattering to our kind.

[jerry]

Appreciate your writing. I love Kentucky Downs as well. Still don\'t know the movie.

[richiebee]

Thanks Edgorman, never occurred to me that \"Fiddler\" was the Yiddish version of
\"Guys and Dolls\".

[TGJB]

I didn\'t either, until Roger chimed in. It\'s not A movie, it\'s THE movie for guys of a certain age. The always underrated Diane Keaton is great, again, in a lesser part.

[Topcat]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn\'t either, until Roger chimed in. It\'s not A
> movie, it\'s THE movie for guys of a certain age.
> The always underrated Diane Keaton is great,
> again, in a lesser part.


I have often advised younger sorts that if they wish to fully understand \'Mmerica, Part II is required viewing.  Many have come back to thank me.

[P-Dub]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Outstanding P-Dub. Will be more surprised if you
> can name Broadway play I mentioned in my response
> to Jerry.
>
> By the way, I\'m saving room for you on the Mets
> bandwagon. You can even wear one
> of those funky Charley O. Finley Oakland A era
> softball uniforms.

If you retract this part of your statement........softball uniforms.......I\'m there. Great memories of those outstanding 70\'s teams.  He was a cheap bastard but way ahead of his time from a PR/marketing standpoint.

Can\'t tell you the play.

[Fairmount1]

richiebee wrote:  There is still a stable core of very healthy facilities
_____________________

Can someone enlighten me more on Canterbury Park?  I went there around age 14 but didn\'t know much about racing whatsoever at the time.  

Their meet just concluded and the numbers look very healthy understanding that these numbers are spun to be \"positive.\"  I actually have encouraged friends to play their races the past two months b/c of large fields for at least a few races a card and they have an excellent variety of races including turf racing.    

Their website includes Poker and table games in it\'s title btw which brings me to....

How do they calculate their attendance?  Does it include casino patrons those days also?  

70 racing days, approximately $41 million bet, $170k in purses a day, nearly 6700 average daily attendance.  I would say the racing product when including the concessions of 6700 people is supporting itself.  Not sure of how purses are connected to casino revenues if at all in Minnesota.  But a small midwest track with very healthy numbers the way I read it.  Fields size of 7.98 not out of this world but solid.  

($41 million times 20% average takeout equals 8.2 million, 170k times 70 dates equals under 12 million paid out).  While the gambling doesn\'t support the purses completely just $10 per person at the concession stand/admission fees has the purses paid completely.  And I understand part of the takeout goes directly to the state but the numbers aren\'t showing an abysmal loss by any means.  One of my friends believes tracks make plenty of money and that we shouldn\'t put slots in Illinois or help tracks anymore.  Fairmount Park had 4300 and 4500 attendees their last 2 dates this summer which is pretty crowded and makes me wonder if Canterbury is legimately getting over 6000.  

Wondering if Mj can weigh in on his home track?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/94385/canterbury-reports-increases-for-2015-meet

[mjellish]

Canterbury has done a nice job of getting people to the track for years.  They have created a much more family friendly environment than just about any track I have ever been to.  Not that I bring family out there, but it\'s nice to see all the young kids running around learning an appreciation for horses.

So although Canterbury has done a fantastic job for year, unfortunately they just didn\'t generate the handle they needed to increase purses as most of the betters out there are $2-$5 betters.  They pursued approval to add slots for years to help subsidize purses, much against the tribal casino interests nearby (one is just a few miles down the road from the track).  Years ago they were able to get table games and poker approved, which helped.  About two or three years ago, however, they finally got some traction behind their slot approval efforts.  It became apparent the legislature was probably going to approve the measure.  But at the 11th hour the Tribal Casino Government reached an Agreement to pay Canterbury several million dollars a year in exchange for them to drop their request for slots.

Since that Agreement was put in place, which also includes some cross marketing promises, the daily purses have more or less doubled, and the stakes program was beefed up.  My understanding is the Agreement is a 10 year Agreement, but I don\'t know how iron clad that is without seeing it.

In the meantime, the racing product has been pretty decent.  The pool sizes still leave a lot to be desired IMO, especially considering their takeout on their Pick 4 pools is only 14% every day.  But their MSPWT races are now run for about $35k.  A first level Allowance purse is 40k for a MN bred.  So they have begun to attract some decent stables that had previously been running elsewhere, primarily Chicago and Iowa.  I think they have a waiting list or darn close to it for stall applications.  So all in all, I would say things are on the upswing.  And they should be.  It\'s a clean, well run facility and the backside accommodations are top notch for horsemen.  The management was forced to \"Get It\" years ago to get the stables to come although the purses weren\'t as competitive as they wanted them to be.  And now that the purse levels are much higher the track management hasn\'t forgotten what they learned from 1995-2005.  Their announcer, Paul Allen, is also top notch and very underrated IMO.

[miff]

MJ,

You mentioned one of the main problems with the game,betting pools too small to get gamblers interested in the Canterbury\'s of the world.It could be argued that closure of all such venues,with live racing,would increase pool size at the majors(NY, Cali, KY, FL)

Even with handle stagnant at $10 billion, the game would be way better off if that money was concentrated into a few pools rather than 15+pools on many days.Unfortunately, contraction in live racing venues may take too long to give racing a jolt which attracts extra handle.

Mike

[TGJB]

Two quick thoughts off the top of my head.

1-- Since each of the tracks is a separate entity, orderly contraction can\'t happen. The best way would be for each one to run fewer days, leaving less competition each day, but they can\'t even agree on racing dates WITHIN states, or non conflicting post times, so good luck with that.

2-- Better for whom? Every venue that closes is jobs lost. Just like every business that becomes more efficient (usually through the internet) means jobs lost.