Maker Derby runners

[miff]

It\'s spring, the Kool Aid is flowing.

[TGJB]

As far as I know, Bill Baker was VG\'s vet.

[HP]

The list is fact.  Interpeting what all this means is a different story and I respect other opinions.  He did a helluva job in 2004-5.  Quite a few ROCKETS in there.  I\'m into Snapple!

[TGJB]

I add one and one, and you say two is Koolaid?

[miff]

So lets play. The horses that HP listed were ALL injected with a magic illegal undetected PED and that\'s why they won.

...sounds like 1 and equals 3 over there.

[HP]

For me it\'s a \"smoke\" and \"fire\" thing.  I\'m not edumucated enough to speak to it otherwise.  

I don\'t have any reason to think Jerry is lying about what Allday told the Jockey Club.  Do you think he\'s lying?  That\'s a \"straight from the horse\'s mouth\" thing.  

Dropping out now.  Good luck in the Derby to all.

[TGJB]

That would indeed be 1 and 1 equaling 3.

[miff]

So Allday allegedly said self incriminating stuff about what he was illegally doing and now continues, unabated,to do it today...got it

[TGJB]

He, I, and everyone else who spoke to that group was told nothing they said would be used against them.

[HP]

Just to clarify - so there is no \"allegedly.\"  He actually said these things.  And \"self incriminating\" isn\'t relevant because they told him they wouldn\'t go after him based on what he said.  

Last part is, and excuse my ignorance here, was what he was doing \"illegal\" at the time?  Breaking a specific rule?  Maybe it was illegal in some places but not others?  Grey area or explicitly barred?  And was there a difference of opinion about whether it was against the rule or not, or was it clear?  

Thanks and I apologize if you have addressed this already.

[smalltimer]

I\'m watching this one from ringside and my scorecard has TGJB up 5 rounds to 4 in a hotly contested debate.  We just moved into the \"he said, he said\" portion of the bout but emotions are still held in check.
It\'s been an entertaining exchange of opinions, but it lacks the vitriol and contempt of the recent TGJB/Rags exchange.
Miff seemed to be tiring late in this bout, but now appears to be
re-invigorated after a between rounds visit from some guy they call Steve.
It\'s apparent from TGJB\'s frown that the cocktail provided by corner-man richiebee is tap water.  Richie assures TGJB it is T.A.P. water... TGJB smiles and nods in agreement.
The bell for Round 10...

[TGJB]

I\'m not going to characterize what he said as self incriminating or doing something illegal. I repeated the chronology he had told a friend of mine, who had told me the conversation in detail within an hour of having it with Allday. As I have said here before, Allday talked about developing EPO use for Paulson, horses dying, using aspirin to thin the blood. Paulson dying, then  going to work for Byrne (the year he won 15 straight at CD and had the two champions), leaving Byrne to go to work for Stronach (Red Bullet), starting with the Dutrows, who introduced him to Frankel (2001), then starting with Pletcher (Left Bank, Left Bank dying, etc.). He had told that guy (and another poster here) that you no longer needed to use EPO, there were easier, cheaper ways.

So I told Janney, Phipps, Waldrop and 20 other people this at the end of my hour after telling them what needed to be done to stop illegal drug use, then left and came back to the office. I was sitting here at my desk when the phone rang, it was Alan Marzelli, who had the job Gagliano has now, and was the one who had invited me to the meeting. He said he hadn\'t told me, but they had Allday coming in 2 hours after me. He said they used what I told them as a map, and Allday admitted everything to them.

Was I in the room? No. I was just told it by the head of the JC, who heard it in a room with the Fortune 500.

[miff]

All of which second handed info means precisely what as to TAP getting \"tops\" at Gulfstream, what bulls--t!

[TGJB]

Under the circumstances-- two conversations with major industry figures, both within an hour of talking to Allday-- that\'s an amazing statement. You don\'t have to believe it, but it\'s not bulls--t. I was answering the man\'s question.

[Fairmount1]

HP WROTE:  Dr. Allday\'s veterinary credentials include: Thoroughbred Horses of the Year (A.P. Indy 1992, Cigar 1995-1996,[3] Favorite Trick 1997, Point Given 2001 and Saint Liam 2005); Thirteen Triple Crown Race Winners (Summer Squall 1990 Preakness, Hansel 1991 Preakness and Belmont Stakes, A.P. Indy 1992 Belmont Stakes, Silver Charm 1997 Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Real Quiet 1998 Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Victory Gallop 1998 Belmont Stakes, Fusaichi Pegasus 2000 Kentucky Derby, Red Bullet 2000 Preakness, Point Given 2001 Preakness and Belmont Stakes, Empire Maker 2003 Belmont, Rags to Riches 2007 Belmont; Super Saver 2010 Kentucky Derby); Twentynine Breeders Cup Races winners: 2000 Macho Uno, War Chant, Kalonski, Perfect Sting, 2001 Squirtle Squirt, 2002 Starine, 2004 Ghostzapper, Ashado, Speightstown, 2005 Saint Liam, Silver Train, English Channel,[iMidnight Lute, Ginger Punch, Kip Deville, 2009 Tapitsfly, 2010 Uncle Mo,[4] More Than Real, and Pluck.
___________________________________________


Let me get this straight.  Pletcher 8 for 148 in BC and Derby combined.  

And you listed the following 7 horses in that list as Allday horses:

Super Saver, Ashado, Speightsown, English Channel, Uncle Mo, Pluck, More Than Real.

The only BC/DERBY winner of Pletcher\'s not listed is Shanghai Bobby (maybe b/c the list hasn\'t been updated past 2010?).  

Real Simple.  Who are the vets for each of Pletcher\'s horses?  And Dickinson made it sound like this is becoming a chemist\'s game.

Who was Frankel\'s first BC winner?.....Squirtle Squirt 2001 (on the list).  Frankel 0 for 38 in BC before Squirt.  Starine won the following year in the BC.  Frankel didn\'t win the Derby in \'02 or \'03 but he had Medaglia d\'oro, Empire Maker, Peace Rules.  Glad to see he started to get some decent stock there.  Those first 38 must have been real bums that weren\'t bred for the distance or didn\'t like the surfaces they had run on.