Materiality

[RICH]

That surgery thing is very interesting, considering Alysheba had it before the blue grass and it held for him, but that could be one out of a hundred. Not doubting JCov, but can anyone give a second opinion on that or verify?

[johnnym]

Llewellan or a myectomy is the type of surgery Frosted had Google it.

[TreadHead]

Any word on the estimated date of the surgery?  The workout notes I get show him still being noticeably noisy (and only 2 star workouts) on his 3/6 and 3/20 PMM works.

[SoCalMan2]

Fairmount1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can any correlation be drawn that 3 of those board
> finishes were Winstar horses, Bluegrass Cat, Super
> Saver, and Revolutionary?
>
> _______________________________________
>
> If it matters to anyone, none of these three ran
> at Gulfstream Park.  
>
> And neither has Carpe Diem.  
>
> I\'m fairly certain Materiality will be a toss for
> me regardless of what I hear/read between now and
> Derby Day.  If that\'s my undoing, so be it.  But
> I\'m confident that is going to be a stand I take.
> If not for the Upstart problems recently, I would
> have thrown out a request to wager a head-to-head
> Upstart vs. Materiality.  You can guess who I
> would take.  And it still may work out that way.


I am curious if Winstar had Pletcher run any good horses at Gulfstream?  Maybe they know the GP antics and they want no part of that?  Was Gulfstream the meet where the Ramseys had horses run out of their skin for several different trainers?  I seem to recall, but could be mistaken, about a suggestion that the Ramseys were seeking GP title using something that was evidenced by the performances of their runners regardless of which trainer. Does anybody remember what I am recalling?  Is Gulfstream uniquely tolerant about certain substances?  It is truly remarkable in this day and age that you need to factor into your handicapping the type of testing a track does or does not do.

[miff]

Info on a procedure like that should be made public, players should not have to guess.

It was never confirmed that Frosted entrapped.Mc Laughlin said the manner in which Frosted shut down in the FOY led him to think that.Also it was felt that the addition of blinks, aggressive ride coupled with dead GP surface had something to do with FOY performance.

Rosario worked the horse and loved him.Several works after FOY,leading up to Wood, were deemed terrific by Mc Laughlin and his camp bet the Wood with both hands.

Bottom line, if you like Frosted just bet him, way too much speculation about this or that.Think he will take back in the Derby and make a late run like the Wood, his best 2 races were at Aqueduct though.

[pizzalove]

I think Super Saver was saved by a Borel ride more than anything else.  No Borel he doesn\'t hit the super.  The only horse I really felt on the Pletcher list that was ever even close to being in contention for winning was Invisible Ink and that was only for a split second.  the rest are clunk ups.

[pizzalove]

Covelj70,

Interesting observation on Carpe Diem.  What did you exactly see that you did not like.  I saw the horse as a two year old and liked him quite a bit.  It seems as a three year old he has done very little growing.  Seems to be one of those horses that gets good size early and then goes no where.  I did see him at the Blue grass but was not impressed.  So I bet against him.  The horse smashed a weak field with a Beyer of 95 which could be his best.  Don\'t feel there is any move forward with this one.  Multiple horses in the Coolmore were better physical specimens.  Just my worthless opinion.

Pat

[ajkreider]

If you tossed from the Derby the horses with a 3 yr old race at GP, you didn\'t cash on several winners, and even more trifectas.  Not the angle to play.

[miff]

Another big work at Palm Meadows, strong finish in 23.47 for last quarter big out.

[covelj70]

And importantly, he\'s working with and out working Stanford. A nice horse in his own right that is running nice TG figs (outside of the Florida)!

[jkotik]

i am kind of surprised none of you monkeys brought up the great dunkirk who came into the 09 derby on a pair of 0 negatives, 5 weeks rest from the fla derby and had 2 1 1/8 races, 3 total races, all with no 2 yr old foundation.

[Fairmount1]

Don\'t worry.  It\'s in the My Miss Sophia string. Keep reading.

[jkotik]

aha, missed that one

[Molesap]

Materiality = Dunkirk?
I know they are different horses running in different years, but because it was noted, the similarities are there.  Pletcher trained Dunkirk and he currently trains Materiality. Here is a brief summary of the running lines for each. (Date  Distance  Race  Finish-Lengths  Beyer):

Dunkirk (2009)
1/24  7f  MSW          1-5.75  77
2/19  9f  ALW           1-4.75  98
3/28  9f  Fla Derby   2-1.75  108
5/2  10f  Ken Derby  11-19  77

Materiality (2015)
1/11  6f  MSW          1-4.25  88
3/6    9f  Isla H          1-5.75  104
3/28  9f  Fla Derby   1-1.50  110
5/2  10f  Ken Derby  ??  

[Silver Charm]

Fyi Jim.

Both Pletchers (Carpe Diem) are doing well. And each of them, respectively is faster than their two Baffert rivals (AP and Dortmund). And will be double and triple the prices. Hello!!!!

Florida Derby winner Materiality came off the track "on the muscle," as racetrackers say of a horse who is full of himself and showing it.

"He's normally a quiet colt, but sometimes he'll tip you that he's feeling good," Pletcher said. "He's telling us that he came out of that work yesterday very well."