question for the experts

[barn rabbit]

If poly plays like turf and cushion plays like dirt what does tapeta play like?  thanks in advance.

[TGJB]

More like grass. After all, it was invented by Michael Dickinson.

[Rick B.]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More like grass. After all, it was invented by
> Michael Dickinson.

So, in general, synthetic surface racing
characteristics are like the size of hailstones:
highly variable, and unable to be described
solely on their own specifics.

Add in all of the other variables horse racing
throws at us every day...

(Don\'t even need to mention special sauce and
Supertrainers at the moment.)

Ugh! I think I\'d rather bet on the size of hailstones
during the next storm!

You guys that like synthetics: all yours.

[TreadHead]

I think it would be hard to argue that the DMR poly has played like anything but dirt this meet.  I know that has not always been the case, and I think you could make similar arguments that the KEE poly has changed in characteristics over time as well, but consider the following from the 8/25 BRIS data

6.5F - 30 races - 43% wired - avg beaten lengths 1st call 1.7, 2nd 1.0

6.0F - 49 races - 35% wired - ABL 1.7, 1.2

Hell, that might even be faster than most dirt tracks

[pacehandicapper]

Tread,
Could not agree more.  The DMR main track during this meeting has been the complete opposite of how it\'s played every other meeting since they installed Poly.  I play it every day and I can\'t think of more than a handful of races where the deep closers have rolled by late down the middle, which used to happen all the time in previous years.  It has played as much like a dirt track as any synthetic I\'ve seen, even as much or more so than BHP.

[Dana666]

No two synthetic tracks are alike and a great deal depends upon weather and track maintenance as well as track configuration and the degree to which the turns are banked.

To say they are \"like turf\" is not entirely accurate either though synthetic races are \"sometimes\" run like turf races, slow early and fast late, but even that doesn\'t hold true all the time.

When a horse strikes a dirt surface, the hoof slides a little until it grabs the base of the track; when it strikes a synthetic surface, it sticks more than slides, unless the surface is degraded as Hollywood often is by the meet\'s end, for example, and then it slides a lot more than normal, which is bad.

On turf, their hooves stick more, closer to synthetic, but not exactly the same.

Horses often feel very uncomfortable on synthetic tracks if they\'re not used to that sticking motion--you often see them getting very tired toward the end of a race; the reason it is so hard to close on most synthetic tracks and they tend to run with an up and down motion. Light bodied types that can glide more lightly and run over the track, as in slop, do much better on any synthetic, and big strong types usually exhaust themselves on synthetic.

You\'ve got to watch closely and look for trends.

For example, to say that Del Mar has been more speed favoring this season is accurate, but mostly because they have learned how to better maintain the surface, and also the weather there has been a little cooler than usual this year, keeping things tighter.

I used to hate synthetic tracks, but I don\'t mind now because they add much randomness to the handicapping equations; also I am fairly adept at figuring out which horses will like or not like synthetic tracks. I don\'t mind the variety that have in California, for example. The more different factors to consider, the better you can come up with live long shots overlooked by many people.

Cushion plays \"more like\" dirt but not exactly like dirt. Poly is usually consistent if maintained properly and not subjected to extremes of weather. Tapeta is the best in all weather situations, and mostly fair in terms of running styles closers vs. speed. There is less kick back with Tapeta as well compared with poly.

Breeding influence is the most intriguing aspect of synthetic handicapping. Some sire\'s offspring hate it and some love it. Keep your own notes. Example in California: Swiss Yodelers hate it. Good Journeys love it. Good Journey is a California sire on the rise by the way.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Note: Baffert has said Paynter hates synthetic tracks, and he expects him to do very well at Saratoga this weekend back on dirt.