Some thoughts in support of Grade One Handicap Races

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

I\'m in accord with Thehoarseplayer.  To me its easy. You have your weight for age races and you have your handicap contests. The handicaps make for interesting wagering and without the wagering aspect the game doesn\'t exist. You all said it in the thread.

On another note I\'m sure disappointed Funny Cide is not back. I was worried about Mega Death so I didn\'t bet. I knew Fitz was an up and coming horse also. I don\'t know now. Maybe his wins weren\'t as dominant as I thought. I don\'t know why he\'s not back to that form.

[Silver Charm]

How about having the Graded Stakes Committee also consist of Three Racing Secretary/Handicappers who are independent of ALL TRACKS. They can weight the horses then there really is no political angle like now.

Lets face it with simulcasting people are going to bend in order to get horses (ie-content) for their big races. Look at the Donn, how does MDO get assigned only 122. Easy, politics to get the trainer to ship him in for the race.

The tracks can still have their own Secretary/Handicapper for Overnights or Non-Graded, but if someone wants Graded Black Type he must play by their weights.

The Allowance idea is good but after thinking about it there are also flaws. Look at last year when the 400K American Oaks was an ungraded stakes and the winner (Dermot Weld trainee) actually dropped weight next out in the Flower Bowl because the win was in a race that was ungraded even though it was a Grade I field.

[Michael D.]

the DRF poll (hardly scientific) this week asks the question: \"should gd 1 handicaps be changed and run at scale weights instead\". 60% of the 1,800 fans responding say yes.

You all do realize that some people believe that weight does not matter!  I do not believe that and I\'m certain no one around here believes it either, but there\'s a huge number of otherwise very sharp handicappers that think it\'s a non-issue.

Furthermore, from a betting perspective, many of those that concede it is a factor in determining the outcome of races believe it is overrated on the board. They believe that given two horses of equal ability with one carrying more weight, the higher weighted horse is a better value more often than the other way around.

Finally, some people think horses have varying weight carrying ability that is not related exactly to size.

Not sure how you resolve an issue on which outside the TG world there is very little consensus.

[derby1592]

I will let TGJB respond himself but I am pretty sure his suggested \"well thought out system of allowance conditions\" was not the current scale weights. I am pretty sure he was thinking of wins at different levels and dates and maybe even something more sophisticated including money earned (not necessarily just for races won).

I agree that sometimes you can find \"loopholes\" in such conditions but if they are \"well thought out\" and evolve over time as shortcomings are identified, I think this could work.

I also like the idea of having some sort of \"impartial\" weighting of horses such as they regularly do in Europe based on the consensus subjective opinions of a panel of experts. It would have to be updated regularly (probably weekly or bi-weekly) but that approach could work as well and the weightings could even be used for other purposes such as ranking BC entrants and for Eclipse awards at year end to replace the current voting method (i.e., the highest weighted horse wins in each category). You could still use the current voting method for HOY and the non-equine awards.

Either one would be a big improvement over what we have today.

Chris

[Phalaris]

True handicap races are pretty much long gone. The days when really good horses might routinely be expected to concede 20 or 30 pounds to stakes horses are rocking-chair memories. (It\'s hard enough to get top-class horses to run against current, in-form, stakes-class horses, let alone concede major amounts of weight to them.) Forego carrying 130+ in most of his races, Ta Wee winning the Fall Highweight under 140 pounds and picking up weight for the Interborough Handicap in her next start - these things were well on their way to the waste bin of history when Delp thought he had the best horse ever but whined about him having to carry 130 pounds.

It\'s part of a trainer\'s job to complain about weights - that\'s nothing new. One important thing that\'s changed in the landscape of racing over the last few decades is the trend of horses racing only a handful of times, with every loss a serious liability. If you\'re campaigning a modern potential champion, the last thing you want to do is unnecessarily risk running your horse in a race where he might lose. Back when horses might run 10 or 20 times a season, a few losses along the way were more forgivable.