Some thoughts in support of Grade One Handicap Races

[Thehoarsehorseplayer]

Every few years the argument that Grade One Handicaps should be eliminated from the Racing Menu raises its tired head and then a series of races comes along that puts that puppy (which seems to me born and bred of dog track sensibilities) back to sleep.
    The last time I remember the anti-Grade One arguments gaining traction was in 2001.  And then Point Given\'s Haskell/Travers races came along to pretty much silence that argument for a while.  If you remember the races, the Haskell was a classic, the Travers a yawner.  
In the Haskell, Point Given carrying 124 had to dig deep inside himself to run down the  lightweighted longshot Touch Tone (115) in the stretch.  The long shot players were yelling hopes and Point Given\'s backers were  yelling prayers and everybody who was present at Monmouth on that glorious and pandemonious day knew they had seen something special.  Two weeks later Point Given walked over his peers at equal weight in the Travers.  And  the hushed crowd began walking to Siro\'s.
    But I guess where one comes down on this argument depends upon what one wants from Racing.  If you want to see horses prove their courage, and test themselves against the great horses of the past by conceding weight to their contemporaries, you want to see Grade One Handicaps remain on the Racing Menu.  If you\'re looking for something to single in a pick three with All-All (ah,what sportsmen these trawlers be) I guess even weights in all Grade Ones makes sense.
    But remember this: If the Prince had not offered to have his charge carry a few extra stone in order to persuade the reluctant Earl to bet upon his once defeated steed again, there would not have been a rematch.  There would not have been a Sport of Kings.
    Racing has always been about conceding weight.  And, it seems to me, if one doesn\'t understand this, one doesn\'t really  understand the nature of Racing.  One really doesn\'t understand the history, the traditions, the challenges, the greatness, the raison d\'être of Racing. One doesn\'t really understand the Sport.
Indeed, Racing without Grade One Handicaps seems to me kind of like a Heavy Weight Championship Bout where punches to the head were not allowed.  I\'m not saying it wouldn\'t be enjoyable, but it certainly wouldn\'t be the same thing.



Post Edited (02-09-04 17:05)

[Michael D.]

how many people came to see PG run at the Spa that day? horse racing is built on great horses doing great things. sure, some of the more experienced bettors might appreciate weight making some more races interesting, but I think the objective of the best races each year should be to attract the best horses, and let the fans see the best of the sport. and by the way, on Travers day, you can find about 30 good betting races across the country where weight plays a role; i want to see the summer\'s best 3 yr old standing in the winners circle for the big one.

[Silver Charm]

The dilemma is if you put a four horse field out there for $1,000,000, with a walkover winner, in todays age of simulcasting and the track will lose too much money on the race. No one can bet on it.

Horses don\'t have to only run in certain races at NY or Calif for a big purse. They can go to Lone Star, Remington, Calder, Delaware on their big days and in some cases the shipping will be paid for.

Also if the track cards a race that is unbettable, the gambling public will bet another race at another track--(ie-simulcasting).

Also what races are more legendary? When Forego carried 137 pounds and lost by a nose, when Dr Fager set a mile World Record carrying 132 pounds or when Cigar beat Star Standard in the Jockey Club at level weights.

[Thehoarsehorseplayer]

To Michael D.
And?
What does that have to do with my argument.
I\'m not advocating changing the Travers into a hanidcap race.
My point was that there is room, indeed a purpose, for all kinds of Conditions in a Racing book.
And because of the Handicap Conditions of the Haskell, Monmouth had the better race for the bettor and the spectator that year.
In fact, considering that the runner up shipped in from Saratoga also (and he probably would have never shipped in to run at equal weights) without the handicap conditions Monmouth would have had a real stinker.  Three local allowance horses running to pick up the rest of the checks.
Instead Point Given gave them a bit of courage, a bit of greatness, and I\'m sure many of the spectators at Monmouth that day followed him up to Saratoga for just that reason.



Post Edited (02-09-04 19:27)

[Michael D.]

very few people followed PG from Mth up to Sar because he only won by a small margin, i don\'t know where you get that crazy idea. if the horse won the haskel by 20 lengths in track record time, the sport would have had more of a superstar, and interest from the public would have increased....... and, why do you not want the travers to be a handicap race, while suggesting other gd 1 races should be handicaps? with the thousands of great betting races across the country each year, why not let the best horse, with the best connections take the top five or ten best races of the year? ........... the most legendary race in history was Secretariat winning the Belmont. i was in a crib at that time, so I really don\'t know what the conditions were, but I think he was on equal weights with the others, and that race is the most replayed in history because he won by so many length. does it really bother you that secretariat didn\'t pay $10.00 to win that day? huge crowds show up when the sport has superstars. let\'s show off racings superstars, not weigh them down.

[P-Dub]

Where do you get the crazy idea the interest would increase?? THP stated his points for handicaps in his first post. Do you really think the \"public\" would have noticed a 20 length win in track record time? Horse racing fans with any sense of history would discount a track record if the horse carried less weight than he should have. Casual sports fans with a slight interest in racing would not have noticed or cared about a 20 length victory in anything but the Derby.

You think the racing public wants to see GR1 races turn into 10 length romps?? I see your point. Watching Dallas annihilate Buffalo 52-14 is much more enjoyable than a 32-29 yawner like this yrs SB. Cmon Michael, Secretariat didn\'t romp because of level weights, he was a superior horse regardless of the weight. He proved it over and over again with superior performances just like the greats of the past. You say you were in a crib in \'72. I suggest reading about great champions of the past, perhaps you will see THPs point. THP\'s story about the Prince captures the essence of his argument. Silver Charm reminding us of great races past with weight being a factor does also. I don\'t think seeing the best of the sport is a 10 length romp against overmatched opponents. There are too many other races to choose from for a trainer. When they don\'t run we are left with a bunch of overmatched horses. Is this really what we want with our \"best\' races??  Handicaps level the playing field, hopefully increase field size, and stimulate wagering. If a horse is as great as he is supposed to be, he should win regardless.



Post Edited (02-10-04 00:39)

[Silver Charm]

P-Dub wrote:

\"There are too many other races to choose from for a trainer. When they don\'t run we are left with a bunch of overmatched horses. Is this really what we want with our \"best\' races??\"

The answer is HELL NO.

Besides trainers who think this way there people, or so I\'ve heard, who actually calculate speed figures and for a fee advise owners on which venue to ship to, to win the most money they possibly can while facing the easiest possible competition.

Can you imagine this???

Why not ship your horse wherever MDO is, get no break in weights and if say Congaree shows up, run for third or fourth money in a 500K race when you could have gone to Turfway or somewhere else and run for the same amount of money.

Your the owner which one are you going to choose??? Which place would your advisor tell you to go???

And how can places like Turfway (etc) afford to put on Cards like this???

[ronwar]

To some, Horseracing really is a sport and not just an avenue where the most important thing is the pari-mutuels (although we like it to be sometimes)  What if the Patriouts had to carry around an extra 10 pounds on there back because they are supposed to be \"superior\" or Jordan had to wear 10 pound ankle weightsto make the competition fair.  How about this?  The best horse, with the best ride, whos trainer did the best job wins. And if its 30 lengths so be it.  I\'ll just have to search for my value else where.

[Michael D.]

would the bills-cowboys game have been better if the cowboys had to win the game by the vegas line in order to get the trophy? no other sport would even consider handicapping its superstars in order to give bettors more action. let\'s consider this a sport for maybe 1% of the races per year, the other 99% of the races can continue to be havens for gambling action.

[TGJB]

Just got back from a few days away, haven\'t really caught up with the board. But it seems to me the easiest way to balance competition (parity?) without having all the problems handicaps bring (racing secretaries not doing their jobs, like the one who told us he didn\'t want his weights to determine the winner of a race), is to have the horses weight themselves. Use a well thought out system of allowance conditions and make it uniform, so trainers can\'t go running away to run someplace else-- they would carry the same weight both places.

A job for the NTRA?

[Silver Charm]

TGJB wrote

\"Use a well thought out system of allowance conditions and make it uniform, so trainers can\'t go running away to run someplace else\"

Give me break, this makes so much sense it has no chance of ever happening.

Also nice picture.

[Thehoarsehorseplayer]

Actually, handicapping for parity does exist in professional and collegiate sports through the mechanism of salary caps and scholarship limitations.
But let\'s just talk about the even playing field here.  If you think what is best for the sport of horseracing is that the best horse gets every chance to win every race, then in addition to equal weights I think you better start advocating staggered starts and racing lanes.
But then, maybe not.
Because horse racing is not track and field or ice skating.  And it is not football or basketball.
It\'s horse racing.  With a traditon hundreds of years old.  And the wisdom underlying that traditon is a horse race is not about who is the best horse, but who is the best horse under the conditions.
And therefore greatness in horse racing is not determined by setting track records under ideal situations (in fact, Julie Krone once apologized to Woody Stephens for setting a track record at Monmouth on one of his mounts) but by exhibiting the courage to overcome when faced with challenging, and perhaps unfair, conditions.
That\'s the essence of the Sport to me.



Post Edited (02-10-04 15:32)

[Michael D.]

OK, fair enough............. i think reasonable people can disagree over this one.

[gowand]

Handicap racing is a thing of the past when the options for owners and trainers were much more limited.  racing secretaries simply can no longer act without outside influences.  I thought the purpose was to put all of the horses on essentially equal footing or at least close the gap.  If I as an owner or trainer can put pressure on a track to keep my weight down what is the point.  might as well just race wieght for age.

[derby1592]

Just to add a few thoughts to this thread.

Along with some of the other ways mentioned, all major sports also \"handicap\" through the draft in which the \"worst\" teams draft first (or at least get in a lottery to draft first). I am not sure that the leagues really want parity but they at least want to give every team some \"opportunity\" to be competitive.

The idea of a standard set of allowance conditions in racing makes a lot of sense to me.

Of course, this is way down on my list of priorities right now. Let\'s clean up the drug problem (the momentum seems to have been lost with the delay in extended testing for graded stakes) and then fix the flawed business model.  

After we get to the point where we can all legally and conveniently watch and wager on(with a reasonable net takeout) any race in North America with some assurance that the horses are running clean...

Then we can worry about standard allowance conditions...

Chris