No Such Thing As Bad Publicity?

[TGJB]

A friend faxed to me a page from the new Sports Illustrated, with an excerpt from Pete Rose\'s book:

\"Throughout my adult life,I still thought of myself as an average Joe. When I went to the track, I felt the same excitement I had as a kid. Even though I became famous, I could walk into the clubhouse at any track in the country and be equal to anyone else. Whether a guy is a $2 or $2,000 bettor, we\'ll share the same information. We may not stand in the same line to place our bets at the window, but we\'ll talk about track bias and speed figures, and Derby and Breeders\' Cup prospects. We\'ll be talking the same language. And when it comes to gambling on horses, everyone has his own system-- whether it\'s Thoro-Graph sheets or just plain old superstition. None are foolproof. That\'s why they call it gambling. If it were a sure thing, it wouldn\'t be any fun.\"

At least he didn\'t say \"I owe it all to Thoro-Graph\".

Some years ago we had some dealings with the guy who used to own Turfway, whose name I have forgotten, and who used to send it through the windows pretty good. When the Rose stuff broke, part of the story was that this guy and Pete had hit some sign jobs together. Other than that, this is news to me.

[HP]

The only way they should let him into the Hall of Fame is if he agrees that they can carve A**HOLE under his name on the plaque. And to anticipate the obvious argument, they can go ahead and carve it under Ty Cobb\'s name too.  HP

[jbelfior]

TGJB---


If I remember correctly, Rose nailed a $220K pick 6 at Turfway back in the late 80\'s.

Mickey Rivers used to have Sparky Lyle call up the result line from the bullpen. I\'m sitting in the bleachers at the Stadium one afternoon and Lyle is yelling names, numbers, and mutual payoffs over the centerfield fence.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[Mall]

I\'m pretty sure the pk6 was closer to $600k, that Rose was part of a syndicate, & that using a 10 percenter to cash the ticket is what lead to the criminal charge that landed him in jail. I also want to say that Jerry Carroll is the former owner of Turfway. My couple of interesting encounters caused me to conclude that Charlie Hustle is an excellent handicapper who is almost as intense at the track as he used to be on the baseball diamond.

[hooper]

I\'ve seen Mr.Rose a few times at Foxwoods Casino in Ct.He was more than \'intense\' when FuPeg won the Derby.

[Mall]

As was I, particularly after 6 close 2nds on the undercard, including a 14-1 Hollendorfer turf to dirt horse I\'m pretty sure went by the name of Mula Gula. The intensity dissipated when I was pickpocketed on my way back to the so-called Corporate Village. It\'s been a big problem at CD on Derby weekend which has been swept under the rug for many yrs.

[jbelfior]

Mall--

I think a large percentage of us who play this game have an above average level of competitiveness.

Look at some of the athletes who have been known to place a wager or two: ROSE, JORDAN, MICKEY RIVERS, LOU PINIELLA. Even \'ol DON ZIMMER (who is so competetive he wants to fight people at the age of 72.) All tremendous competitors.

But I agree with the idea that Rose is probably a sharp handicapper. Unfortunately, he also has a compulsion to bet on just about anything that moves. Betting on sports/casino gambling makes very little sense to me to begin with (who wants to lay 5.50 to 5), especially when you consider the value that exists in thoroughbred wagering.  


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[Silver Charm]

Aside from being a good handicapper Rose, at least when I have seen him in the restaurant at Calder, also seems to quite successful at being accompanied by some of the local TALENT in So Florida\'s version of SCORES.

Don\'t ask me how I know where they worked.

[HP]

If he was such a good handicapper how did he manage to go bankrupt, despite the fact that he has been non-stop whoring and signing anything he could since he retired? Pete Rose would sign autographs at a funeral. If there\'s been a buck to make without getting a job he\'s made it. And he busted out anyway! I bet he\'s just a loser who jumps up and down a lot when he wins.

As for the ladies Silver Charm refers to, they go with anyone who pays. HP

[TGJB]

From Terms Of Endearment:

Nicholson-- \"I think we should have a drink.\"

Maclain--   \"To break the ice?\"

Nicholson-- \"No, to kill the bug up your ass.\"

Hey pal, kid keeping you up at night?

[Silver Charm]

HP,

So thats how he did it.


I thought it was because of his good looks and haircut.

[Mall]

Rose was accompanied by a younger woman in very tight & inappropriate clothing with an extraordinary, if surgically enhanced, figure when I met him for the 1st time at Kee. According to the fellow I was with, who used the same bookmaker as Rose, the woman was an ex-stripper who had had a child not 14 days before the meeting. When by happenstance I ran into him 4 yrs later at an invitation only(I wasn\'t there because I got one) handicapping contest in Lake Tahoe, he was with the same woman, who as far as I could tell had gotten younger since I 1st saw her. Since I wasn\'t in the contest, which was limited to 10 players & had a $25k 1st prize, I decided to help the youngest player, who was tied with Rose for 1st thorugh most of the day. It was a long & gruelling affair, as these things often are, but hours after it was over when I went back to the racebook to check some score or other, Rose was still there, at that point handicapping & betting on dog races. If it wasn\'t the IRS, that\'s the kind of conduct which can lead to financial ruin over any extended period.

[Silver Charm]

Mall,

Are you referring to the:

A.) Broads

B.) Betting/NonStop

C.) Both


If there was any Booze mixed in, he NEVER HAD A CHANCE IN HELL.

[Mall]

Rose cannot blame his situation on the fairer sex. The main reason I mentioned his companion was that I thought the woman you saw him with might be the same woman I saw him with. His wife.

I\'m not in a position to condemn anyone for living his or her life as a protagonist, & am not qualified to render a medical diagnosis, but what I was implying was possible is the subject of great debate in today\'s papers. If Rose is in fact a compulsive gambler, my reading on the subject leads me to believe that there is no level of handicapping skill which will save him from the poorhouse. If, on the other hand, his problems are related to our confiscatory friends at the IRS, a subject I do know a little about, perhaps gambling is not as big a problem as everyone is making it out to be.

I do know this. It\'s now clear that the issue in Rose\'s mind is becoming a major league manager again. On that question, the interviewer on telvision last night, & the well intentioned gentlemen who performed the initial investigation, have not addressed the central issue: How did Rose decide which days to bet & not bet on the Reds. Gambling is a game of edges & Rose has what seems to me to be a well deserved reputation for taking every one he could get. His vague claims that his plays were never influenced by inside information & that his managerial decisions were made independent of his bets ring hollow to me.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

He prolly can\'t make the hall on character and sportsmanship either, but he\'s there. I think Pete Rose should be allowed back in baseball.

If anyone is interested in reading it, the following is a letter I sent recently to several voting members who had stated they would never vote for Pete Rose\'s induction into the Hall of Fame:

Dear Mr. _______,

I don\'t get to vote upon who is admitted to Baseball\'s Hall of Fame. I wish I did, because there is a historic player who I witnessed that I would surely vote for. He was the epitome of give all baseball and he played that way every day for two solid decades. A lapse of judgement ruined his reputation. Some players have used illegal drugs, but detection and rehabilitation gave them the chance to alter their life styles and allow them a second and even third chance. Some baseball players have utilized steroids. A large number of steroid users were recently detected in random screenings and now I understand the entire league will be subjected to testing. I wonder...has anyone contemplated how the use of steroids can damage the integrity of the game? Are the records modern players set meaningful? Is history being robbed of legitimate accomplishments? Does anyone wonder what the young people think when players like Bonds and Sosa and McGuire and Canseco are rumored to have used steroids to perhaps alter the game? What about Sosa\'s corked bat? What about Gaylord Perry\'s spitball? Is it permissible to cheat in baseball?

There was a baseball commissioner named \"Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis\". (Please forgive my spelling errors on names, I\'m atrocious with them) Landis banned eight players from the 1919 Chicago White Sox from baseball for allegedly fixing a World Series. One of those players is said to have turned down the money to throw the series but ostensibly he was banned from baseball along with the others for not revealing the offer. This ban occurred even though seven were acquitted of the misdeeds in district court. (One didn\'t face trial per my source, I\'m assuming the one that didn\'t accept the bribe) They faced \"double jeopardy\" and all eight lost out to the politics of the times. I don\'t believe there was an allegation that any of those players bet either for or against their team. However, Judge Landis wanted to be sure that in the wake of the scandal that all contributing causes were barred and betting on baseball was one of them.

Its 85 years later. When we buy life insurance we gamble that we will die prematurely and that our families will win our bet. We go to school or take jobs gambling that the investment will pay off down the road. Though today many corportions in an effort to save expense lay off their older employees in their late fifties. Life is full of risk so we do our best in placing our bets. In 1919 Las Vegas didn\'t exist. It didn\'t exist for Joe Jackson and it didn\'t exist for our  great grandfathers either. There was no such thing as a \"State Lottery\" or \"Powerball\". There was no horseracing \"Triple Crown\". There were no whirling slot machines on Indian Reservations. Landis for all his \"vision\" didn\'t see fit to allow black athletes into the game. We are far removed from 1919. Its more than generational. Which is not to say that everything that has evolved has been for our betterment. Addictive gambling isn\'t and steroids aren\'t either. But we certainly live in a far different time.

Judge Landis would probably not vote to allow Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame, but he also banned one of the Black Sox despite his refusal to take a bribe. Landis had a scandal to quash and he may have quashed a couple of innocents along the way. It was a different era. When you go to vote I believe you will consider Judge Landis\'s iron fist as it related to the scandal of the time. I believe you\'ll consider how our society has grown tolerant of mistakes when a genuine effort is made address them. We no longer expect perfections from our athletic idols. I hope you will ask yourself:

\"Did Pete Rose do anything at anytime that was anything short of attempting to win?\"

If you can answer that question with a \"yes\" I would be flabbergasted, but should the day come when you are considering Pete Rose\'s induction into the Hall of Fame all that is really important is that you ask it.

Pete Rose bet on baseball and he bet on his own team. He shouldn\'t have done it, but do you ban someone from the Hall of Fame upon the basis of a 1919 scandal edict and 1919 ethics or do you consider modern ethics, modern application of Landis\'s edict and actual harm done? If induction is upon the basis of 1919 ethics who gets admitted to the Hall of Fame?  

God Bless,

Chuckles the Clown