Pletcher....keeneland

[TGJB]

You are right. No-one has ever drugged a horse. People who admit they do are lying. Data is useless. All those direct points you avoided answering didn\'t require an answer.

Give it a rest. Seriously. Now would be good.

[sighthound]

BTW - EPO won\'t make a horse run faster.  It possibly could make them run longer.

[sighthound]

I think you need to re-read the information about \"Baffert horses falling over dead\".

[Fairmount1]

Ok sight, I\'ll bite.

What makes horses run faster?

[sighthound]

This is beyond absurd.  This isn\'t \"all or nothing\".  This is you using your figures to accuse trainers of cheating - in the face of nothing but your figures.

How many of the trainer names you gave to CA came up positive and were caught?

I say any man\'s speed figures are as accurate in predicting cheating, as they are in predicting winners.

[Fairmount1]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/77501/baffert-deaths-are-personally-troubling

So its okay for it to be personally troubling to Baffert but not to me??  7 horses dead including one after a second place finish right??  Just making sure what you want me to re-read.
________________________________________________

Baffert, a member of the Hall of Fame, lost seven horses to sudden death between July 1, 2011, and March 14, 2013. While examination of most of the causes of death were inconclusive, necropsy reports identified pulmonary hemorrhage, signs of bacterial infection, cardiac collapse, and encephalomyelitis among the possible contributing factors.

One of the horses that died was Irrefutable, a 5-year-old son of Unbridled\'s Song who collapsed after finishing second Nov. 26, 2011, in the Vernon O. Underwood Stakes (gr. III) at Betfair Hollywood Park.

\"He was heading back (to the barn) and everything looked OK,\" Baffert said after the race. \"He ran great. After he was unsaddled, he took about 10 steps. We thought he was having a heat stroke. He must have had a heart attack.\"

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/77501/baffert-deaths-are-personally-troubling#ixzz2R3j3uFEi

[sighthound]

There\'s very little that makes horses literally run faster nowadays.  We easily catch methamphetamine, heroin, cocaine, caffeine, etc.

Virtually everything being used - milkshaking, EPO - is all about increasing stamina, endurance in distance horses. Getting them to the point (their 3 furlong run) with less energy used.

Jerry, honest question for you  - do you think sprinters and distance horses are equally \"doped\"?  

I ask, as they depend upon different metabolic pathways for performance excellence.

[Fairmount1]

I was going to point out before you brought it up the distance issue.  Sure seems that the longer the race is such as beyond 1 1/8 miles, the less likely the \"usual suspects\" win....the shorter the distance the more likely the \"suspects\" win.

On another note, has anyone noticed that Asmussen and Pletcher don\'t run any 4 1/2 furlong baby races at Keeneland as much.  Is it b/c they are tired of competing with the W. Ward who excels with those types?

[sighthound]

Bruce Headley
Ray Bell
Carla Gaines
Ron Ellis
Jerry Quinn
Craig Dollase
John Cooper
A.C. Avila
Gary Sherlock
Robert Troeger
Rafael Becerra
Jack Carava
Dallas Keen
Philip Diamato
Jefferey Metz
Samuel Almaraz
Ramon Pulido
Kathy Walsh
Sean McCarthy
Mike Mitchell
Robert Lucas

Their horses are all \"dropping over dead\", too.  Are you concerned?

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/77495/chrb-no-spike-in-sudden-deaths#ixzz2R3kl4d18

[TGJB]

Briefly, all horses decelerate at all distances Thoroughbreds run, fast and slow twitch notwithstanding. Even closers. Enabling a horse to run the last 1/4 of a 6f race as fast as his other two would be a very big deal.
Everything else has to wait until tmw.

[sighthound]

I\'m not talking fast and slow twitch muscle, I\'m talking energy pathway usage, which needs oxygen to function.
 
He whose ATP lasts the longest ... wins.

[Fairmount1]

So you listed 21 trainers I think.  

They say 30 horses died if I read it right.

9 those dead are Baffert horses?  Or 11 as another article said?  It all seems like a bunch of garble to try to confuse people not to focus on one trainer.  

So to be clear, 1 death each for everyone else?  Or is this over several years?  Am I understanding correctly?  They did a good job of attempting to take the spotlight off of Baffert.

As for if I care sight, please read below.  

_____________________________

I know a very good, highly respected trainer in a strong way.  One time I went out to the paddock and asked him why his horse was just starting his career late in the summer of his 3yo year.  He normally has his horses ready as 2yo or early 3yo and otherwise you don\'t see maidens first time out for him.  He said, \"Well, this horse has a vision issue.  He can\'t see out of one of his eyes.  So, it\'s been a long process but I\'ve got him ready to race and he has been training great.  I think he can win today.\"  Interestingly, it was around the time that Pollard\'s Vision was racing which was a great story so I was intrigued.  I didn\'t bet the race and I watched with extreme interest.  The horses came out of the gate in a 6 furlong race.  And through the stretch, the horse I described literally just fell over right in the stretch well before the wire.  

This trainer, who has over 1000 wins and has been training for over 30 years now (25 plus at the time), literally, ran from the horsemen\'s area, jumped the fence and was with the horse and clearly was absolutely devestated.  He has won many, many, many stakes races and he was crying his eyes out over this MdnClm$10k animal.  

I talked to him days later.  He was still upset saying it was his fault that he pushed that horse into a race.  That the horse was so stressed he had a heart attack during the race.  

Trainers love their horses and what they and their animals do.  And this is a terrible situation California is describing as basically \"normal.\"  The story I relate made sense.  This many deaths does not.  It is troubling.

[sighthound]

Maybe you could click on the article I linked, and read.

If you are bothered by that number of horse deaths - which, unfortunately, is the average in the game everywhere, and has been for some years on dirt tracks - I suggest you find something else to do aside from gambling on living creatures performances.

[Fairmount1]

Besides the article that has Bo Derek and Rick Arthur saying that its the international average do you have another link or research that suggests this to be true??

[johnnyseychelles]

How can some of you be so blind?  Modern day supertrainers and their vets are pushing the envelope with every medicinal/chemical edge they can find.  They are pushing far into the grey areas of the rules.  I don\'t believe they have a \"magic bullet\" undetectable PED, but they definitely are not getting the results they achieve through hard work/horsemanship, etc.

Re: the report on horse deaths (I don\'t care if it focuses on Baffert)....this is what troubles me.

\"But the program has a flaw, and I think it's a major one. There is no requirement that veterinary records of deceased horses be submitted to researchers conducting the post-mortem examinations. Those records are an important component for researchers who are trying to meet the program's objectives.

You would think that owners, trainers and veterinarians would want answers as to why a horse broke down or died suddenly from heart failure, internal bleeding or some other cause. You would think they would do whatever they could to save other horses from suffering a similar fate in the future. And that would include agreeing to a policy that requires veterinary records to be submitted on all horses that died.

If you thought that owners, trainers and veterinarians in California wanted to do that, you would be wrong. Sadly.

For three years now, the CHRB has gone round and round with horsemen and vets on this issue. The CHRB's Medication and Track Safety Committee proposed an amendment back in 2011 that would require six months of veterinary records be submitted on horses that died at California racetracks or licensed training centers.

And they appear no closer today to getting board approval than they were when the proposal – an amendment to CHRB Rule 1846.5, Postmortem Examination – was first made.

"Over strenuous objections from owners, trainers and veterinarians, the board has not moved forward on this proposal," said Dr. Rick Arthur, the CHRB's equine medical director.

CHRB commissioner Bo Derek has pushed this proposal hard, but the resistance to change has been formidable. Many horsemen and veterinarians believe it's nobody's business. And that, of course, is one of racing's biggest problems: they think it's their game, everyone else be damned.

Am I the only one who is PISSED OFF about this? If these deaths are just coincidental, as Miff wants us to believe, what do these owners/trainers/vet\'s have to be afraid of, in respect to recent/prior vet records.  I\'d like to know just which persons were on record objecting.  I\'d be willing to wager I could guess a few of the outfits that would be on this list and you won\'t find Jack Vanberg or other less than 10% guys on that list.

We need transparency.  I want to know when I\'ll Have Another is getting \"shock therapy\", whether I agree with the practice or if it should be allowed doesn\'t matter.  I want to know if and when Vyjack is getting his tank topped up with some packed blood (whether It is his own blood harvested at a prior date or not...whether it\'s considered legal or not) followed by a little harmless R&R time in the hyperbaric chamber.

Way too many questionable practices going on with these guys that need to be KNOWN to the world.  If Miff and others are OK with these practices, at least the rules can be made clear and we can be provided with the info to handicap/wager responsibly.

Jeff Mullins went on record to say folks who bet on horseraces are idiots and don\'t deserve to know what goes on behind he scenes.  I was hoping to outlast the Jeff Mullins\' of the world.  Happy that we are rid of JM, but its apparent in today\'s racing community there are many who subscribe to the \"if you can\'t beat em, join em\" excuse.

Me?  I\'d rather go back to the hay and oats days (I know there\'s been cheating since the beginning of time...but I prefer the odd case of some fool putting pepper spray on his horses bum or a shady jock hitting horse with a battery, compared to today\'s well funded outfits equipped with supertrainer, chemist/vet/nutritionist/shockwave/hyperbaric chambers.

Rant of the year complete.  Go Orb!!!