Pedro

[TGJB]

Look up his stats. I\'d like to know what James says about him.

Guessing we\'ll get back to racing as the weekend stakes approach.

[Rich Curtis]

Which one? James loved two Pedros: \"The best hitter God has made in a long time,\" and \"exponentially more effective than his pitching peers due to his variety of pitches, pitch speeds, pinpoint control, and numerous modes of deception."

[TGJB]

The pitcher. Who I believe didn\'t get his 100th loss until his last start-- for a long time the best win % in history, until his last couple of years.

[Rich Curtis]

This is the best I can do:

http://www.billjamesonline.com/article1177/

[TGJB]

That last chart is simply unbelievable-- not just the gap the year Clemens was second in ERA, but also when Cone was second. I don\'t even know what in sports you could compare that to. Tiger winning the Open by 15, maybe.

[BB]

What added to Pedro\'s greatness was that he was just so much fun to watch. When you see great players actually enjoying themselves out there, it\'s just the cherry on the sundae. He was a gas.

[sekrah]

I know there\'s some older gents around here who would challenge me on this.  But I will put up Pedro\'s 2000 season against any season from anybody, and that includes Koufax, who had pretty significant gaps in his home/away splits at cavernous Dodgers Stadium.  

Pedro\'s stuff was the greatest I\'ve ever seen and in an era where guys were hitting 70 HRs with performance enhancers, they couldn\'t lay a stick on him.

[BB]

As one of those older gents I would nominate Carlton\'s 27-10 in 1972, with a terrible Phillies team that won only 59 games. There are lots of great single seasons out there, though.

[HP]

You could compare it to Bob Gibson in 1968.  Every bit as good if not better and oh yeah, 28 complete games out of 34 starts.  When I get my Time Machine done we\'ll match them up.  I\'ll take Gibson.  Pick out your relivers for when Pedro gets into the seventh.  

HP

[P-Dub]

HP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You could compare it to Bob Gibson in 1968.  Every
> bit as good if not better and oh yeah, 28 complete
> games out of 34 starts.  When I get my Time
> Machine done we\'ll match them up.  I\'ll take
> Gibson.  Pick out your relivers for when Pedro
> gets into the seventh.  
>
> HP


You can\'t compare it if he pitched on top of a mountain and Pedro pitched on top of a hill.

Isn\'t this the year that prompted the league to lower the mound?? (P)Dubbed the \"Gibson Rule\"??

Gibson was great, no argument there. But comparing the 2 pitchers, pitching off off 2 distinctly different mound heights, makes the comparison difficult.

[HP]

You are correct on the mound deal.  

Now despite being right about this, I DID make the comparison, and I did not find it difficult at all.  LOL.  

Pedro is solidly in the \"quality start\" era, where guys get a lot of credit for pitching seven innings.  It\'s a great year, but its like comparing kids to adults.  In the Time Machine game I just watched, Gibson is still throwing bullets and Pedro is taking a shower.  

They really need a separate Hall of Fame section for modern pitchers.  They should not be in the same building as guys like Gibson and Koufax.  28 complete games out of 34 starts.  Come on.  

HP

[FrankD.]

As stated earlier look up Koufaxfor the 4 greatest consecutive seasons any pitcher ever had.

1963  25-5   1.88
1964  19-5   1.74
1965  26-8   2.04
1966  27-9   1.88

97-27 with 31 shutouts & 89 complete games with 3 years of over 300 innings and 300 strikeouts.

Carlton from the same era broke in 1965 on GREAT Cardinal teams won 20 games 6 times & pitched to a 3.22 ERA in a 23 year career.


Pedro won 20 games twice in a 17 year career, pitched over 200 innings only 7 times and to a 2.93 ERA. I\'ll give him .50 for pitching in the American league with the DH 7 of those 17 years.

[richiebee]

Koufax capped off that 63 season with 2 World Series wins v NY Yankees where he
was basically unhittable.

Watching those (day) games with my Dad and Grandpa Spike in Grandpa\'s apartment
in Brooklyn one of my earliest sports memories...

[miff]

The slim jewish kid from Boro Park Brooklyn was unbelievable against very tough competition at that time.

[BB]

Frank, I was referring only to the \"single season\" thing cited. Lefty was just a pup on those great Cardinal teams, and 5 of his 6 20-win seasons were with the Phillies (admittedly, not a bad bunch most of those years).

Still, when you go 27-10 in 41 starts, and your team plays like the \'62 Mets in their other 121 games, that\'s a hell of a year.

And, contrary to Pedro, Lefty never seemed to be having any fun at all.