Garcia's Ride on St. Trinians

[jbelfior]

Any comments?

The better horse won, however would Garcia have been better off sticking to riding his mare instead of Smith\'s.

IMO, his tactics kept ST. T on the wrong (left) lead for too long while trying to drift Zenyatta wide.

Good Luck,
Joe B.

[covelj70]

Joe B.

Interesting question.

I thought the same at first but then I realized that St. T is never going to beat Z straight up so he had to try something to beat her so he race rode a little bit.

Gomez did the same thing one of the races last year when he tried to keep Z behind a wall of horses.

Nothing has been good enough against Z b/c she\'s so remarkably consistent and her consitent race is very very fast but I don\'t blame Martin for trying something different.

[Dana666]

I actually thought Garcia rode a great race. You said it right, he needed to ride Zenyatta as well as his own mount, and he did. He moved much sooner than he normally would with that mare and really almost pulled it off. Trinian\'s gave it her all.

[SoCalMan2]

Why did Garcia go wider than Smith on the first turn?  I do not think Garcia rode very smart in the early going and it may have cost him the race.  If he had planted her on the rail on the first turn, he would have saved a lot of ground over Zenyatta.  He was going to get the jump on her anyway and he was not going to have traffic problems.  This mare was 1w on the first turn in her prior two races (which were also out of the 2 hole). Will be interesting to see the path information on this race.  I thought Smith rode a much better race than Garcia did.

[P-Dub]

SoCalMan2 Wrote:
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> Why did Garcia go wider than Smith on the first
> turn?  I do not think Garcia rode very smart in
> the early going and it may have cost him the race.

Respectfully disagree. How do you know that Smith wouldn\'t have altered his path according to where ST was placed??

[jack72906]

Tough for me to criticize the ride, however anytime you lose race that close you can always go back and think about the \"what ifs\". Regardless, Zenyatta ALWAYS finds a way to get it done and probably would have if Garcia would have tried different tactics. She just \"knows what she\'s supposed to do\". That\'s what makes her great IMO. Forget the numbers.

[Ill-bred]

Correct me if I\'m wrong, but it looked to me that Garcia waited until inside the quarter pole to ask St. Trinians?

I wagered heavily on her and would have preferred a little more ground save and a slightly earlier move to get some distance between him and Z. Garcia waited and waited and tried to outsprint Z. I would have liked a more gradual build-up to the move.

But as stated the best horse won.

[SoCalMan2]

P-Dub Wrote:
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> SoCalMan2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why did Garcia go wider than Smith on the first
> > turn?  I do not think Garcia rode very smart in
> > the early going and it may have cost him the
> race.
>
> Respectfully disagree. How do you know that Smith
> wouldn\'t have altered his path according to where
> ST was placed??

Well, if we assume that Garcia was one path wider than Smith on the first turn, then there is a physical limit to what Smith can do, isn\'t there?  I mean, it is called the rail.  What exactly do you have Smith doing to pick up the extra length of ground, if Garcia takes ST to the 1w path (just like Rosario had been doing with ST in the prior two races)? There is no path inside of the 1w path, so there is no way for Smith to gain back the length of ground he picked up by being one lane inside Garcia if Garcia had ridden the mare the same way Rosario had ridden her.  

Also, Garcia blew the turn before the turn.  He had the horse in the 2 hole and took the horse to the outside of all 6 horses before the turn even started. He gave up the rail instantly.  Now maybe it was a dead rail at Hollywood that day, I don\'t know. Maybe he had instructions not to get her stuck inside on the rail on the first turn.  These jockeys have a tough job, so maybe there is a counter argument I am not aware of. But the original poster asked for comments on the ride on ST, and, to me, Garcia went needlessly wide on the first turn.  Maybe our host can let us know what the comparative ground between Garcia and Smith was on that turn. I realize it is sensitive, but it seems to me possible that Garcia gave up more ground than Smith did on the turns and it was enough of a disparity to cause the result to have been different than it would have if the rides were neutral.  Our host has the relevant information to solve this debate if he is so inclined.

[P-Dub]

SoCalMan2 Wrote:
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> Also, Garcia blew the turn before the turn.  He
> had the horse in the 2 hole and took the horse to
> the outside of all 6 horses before the turn even
> started. He gave up the rail instantly.  Now maybe
> it was a dead rail at Hollywood that day, I don\'t
> know. Maybe he had instructions not to get her
> stuck inside on the rail on the first turn.  These
> jockeys have a tough job, so maybe there is a
> counter argument I am not aware of.

You answer your own question when you say \"I don\'t know\". Its unbelievable to me how many expert jockeys there are in this room. It is similar to guys that have never faced Major League pitching question why a guy swings at a slider in the dirt. Until you have faced that type of pitching, you have no idea what its like.

Maybe the rail was dead, maybe he did have instructions. You don\'t know.

> But the original poster asked for comments on the ride on
> ST, and, to me, Garcia went needlessly wide on the
> first turn.  Maybe our host can let us know what
> the comparative ground between Garcia and Smith
> was on that turn. I realize it is sensitive, but
> it seems to me possible that Garcia gave up more
> ground than Smith did on the turns and it was
> enough of a disparity to cause the result to have
> been different than it would have if the rides
> were neutral.

I don\'t need our host to tell me how much ground was lost. Watch the race. No he didn\'t give up more ground. Smith was tracking Garcia because he knew that was his main threat. Smith followed the same path Garcia did on the first turn, there was no differnce in ground loss. If there was, it was minimal at best. I\'m watching another replay as I type this, and there is no way that first turn altered the outcome.

As for the last turn, Zenyatta went widest of all.  Explain how ST lost more ground there.

\"Well, if we assume that Garcia was one path wider than Smith on the first turn, then there is a physical limit to what Smith can do, isn\'t there? I mean, it is called the rail.\"

If you are going to be a condescending smartass, at least be factual. How do you know Zenyatta, who was tracking ST, wouldn\'t have taken the same path?

\"What exactly do you have Smith doing to pick up the extra length of ground, if Garcia takes ST to the 1w path (just like Rosario had been doing with ST in the prior two races)? There is no path inside of the 1w path, so there is no way for Smith to gain back the length of ground he picked up by being one lane inside Garcia if Garcia had ridden the mare the same way Rosario had ridden her.\"

Again, Smith followed Garcia. What makes you think Smith wouldn\'t take the same path as ST?? You make a lot of ASSUMPTIONS not based on fact.

Its amazing how after 17 straight wins, we get these posts after the fact explaining ways she could have been beaten. Many of them focus on jockey rides by people who have never been on the back of a horse but somehow feel they have the necessary knowledge to judge them.

Bottom Line:
- You don\'t know the instructions given
- You don\'t know if the rail was dead.
- You don\'t know if Smith would have followed the same path along the rail if that was where ST chose to run.
- You just don\'t know.

Jim Mora would have a field day with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHipzGL4dwM

[jbelfior]

I agree that there may have been a number of reasons why Garcia rode the way he did into the first turn and why he tried to float Smith wide turning for home.

My original post was looking for comments on his ride in the stretch where it appeared that Garcia kept ST on her wrong lead in exchange for keeping Zenyatta wide. That was a head scratcher for me.

Good Luck,
Joe B.

[bellsbendboy]

Joe

A jockey would never \"keep\" a horse on the wrong lead intentionally.  St. Trinians has a funny way of going anyway and she lost her left front shoe
coming to the quarter pole which did not help her awkward action.

On the whole I thought the ride was tremendous. bbb

[miff]

Joe B,

Garcia was race riding for sure and gave a perfect ride(as did Smith) waited, waited and then floated Z off the far turn. I\'ve read here more and more about the floating wide thing on the FIRST turn. You would think by now that people would understand that the \'ground loss\' element of the float is only for a few strides into the first turn and is IRRELEVANT as to the races outcome.

The lead change thing is one in which jockeys use various methods to get the horse to change, sometimes horse do not respond on Que or at all.ST ran her eyeballs out and was defeated by Z, who refuses to lose. From the way the ST dug in the last part, it is amazing that Z was able to run her down.

Z ran her best race ever by my score, like neg -2 1/4.

Mike

[SoCalMan2]

I stand corrected.  My apologies

[smalltimer]

I agree Mike.  I thought Garcia rode ST beautifully and gave her every chance to win.  As JB said, had Mike not waited until late to go wide, ST may well have pulled the upset. I was really inpressed with ST.

[P-Dub]

SoCalMan2 Wrote:
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> I stand corrected.  My apologies


I was a bit harsh. You are certainly entitled to your opinions. I just disagreed. I probably should wait until I get a nights sleep before posting instead of doing so after a night of work. Seems I am a \"bit\" wound up that time of night.

Sorry SoCal and JB.

Just got back from the Giants game. Good game, great weather, beautiful ballpark. Funny how a day at the yard can get you in the right frame of mind. This from an A\'s fan.