Zenyatta Should Not Run In The Breeders Cup Classic

covelj70 · October 15, 2009, 05:20:00 AM

Richie,

Love this line about 20% Bill Mott, classic

Silver Charm · October 15, 2009, 07:13:35 AM

>Alright, let me have it.

>P-Dub

Let me step up to the plate.

If Summer Bird or Zenyatta wins the Classic who will have accomplished more THIS YEAR. Last years wins count for nothing in regards to Zenyatta in this particular vote. Great body of work but there should be no rollover from year-to-year. This is Horse of the Year not a Lifetime Achievement Award.

So the real question is who is currently second behind Rachel. Zenyatta or Summer Bird

Michael D. · October 15, 2009, 07:27:00 AM

Paul,

You make valid points in regards to RA\'s races. Beating Macho again a desperate head while getting 8 lbs was an overrated performance imo. The decision to take on a slow group while getting 8 lbs was basically running out the clock, and it worked. The horse of the year race is indeed over. Zenyatta could have run in the Woodward and swooped by that field, but they chose not to run. If StS came over and Zenyatta beat that monster, it would be a closer call. But he\'s retired, and they just didn\'t do enough throughout the year to match Rachel\'s accomplishments, even if Z wins the Classic.

miff · October 15, 2009, 07:37:23 AM

Paul,

I think if Z wins the BC Classic,there could be conversation re HOY,otherwise it\'s Rachel by a pole.If Z wins the BC Classic, it may not be a landslide HOY for Rachel but she\'ll win.Incidentally,I could care less about who wins awards.

Summer Bird has little chance at HOY,since Rachel defeated him in the Haskell.

Regarding who Rachel beat,some were colts/horses who were much faster and far more accomplished than any of the competition that Z has faced all year so far.Voters may not look at speed figs, but on the track, Rachel was flat out faster than Z.I will alibi for Z\'s synth figs in that she is mostly in slow paced races which does not lend itself to fast numbers.

A little West Coast bias re Z,buddy?

Mike

Rick B. · October 15, 2009, 08:34:49 AM

I don\'t need to \"let you have it\". You like a horse. You\'re entitled. My standard reply is, at what price?

Yes, there are many unknowns at the moment, but I suppose we have a general idea who would show, so as of this date, what price would you need on her to make a bet?

Dana666 · October 15, 2009, 08:36:08 AM

I saw his races on tape. I don\'t need to see the sheet! All I can say is WOW!

Silver Charm · October 15, 2009, 08:40:03 AM

Rick B my response was not a \"LET ME HAVE IT\"

This is a debate. I am just not so sure Zenyatta is even in second now for HOY. So she would have to leap from third to first and the top competitor she will never have faced or beaten.

Dana666 · October 15, 2009, 08:54:58 AM

You make a lot of great points. I was talking about the track surface this meet so far, not last year, per se. I think it is a very tiring, dead track, and I believe (unless they change something) that when you have a dead track, it is hard to close from way back and hard to go wire to wire. The ones who win, kind of stalk and hope not to fall down late - whoever is still standing at the end and not too far back usually wins. I wouldn\'t use Curlin as an example. He hated the track, period. As far as Gayego, that was one of the weakest field ever assembled for a Grade I sprint race in America. Ask yourself if he would have run by 50K claimers like he did? Plus, in a one turn race you can get away with that move - you\'re not likely getting away with that in a route race. As far as your arguments on HOY, I freaking agree with you, but you\'re not convincing too many others. Rachel was a phenom. People who never get too involved in racing fell in love with her - people from all over the world. There\'s no way in hell, no matter what Z does (and as I\'ve said, I\'d be shocked if she goes in the classic) that Rachel isn\'t horse of the year. How can you even debate. You\'re arguing facts against lore.

What I\'m saying about Z is, as much as I love her, she is not running by top quality males the way she runs by the females she\'s been facing. You\'re asking her to do too much. She\'s be facing a field so much tougher than any field Rachel ever faced and Z might be close to those top males but she\'s not superior. That\'s my point.

Rick B. · October 15, 2009, 09:25:21 AM

I was responding to P-Dub. I should have quoted him, for context. Sorry for the confusion.

P-Dub · October 15, 2009, 01:34:42 PM

Dana,

Fair comments regarding the surface. Hopefully we\'ll get to see just how well Z would stack up against horses far superior to anything Rachel has raced against.

Silver,

My long time sparring partner. You can\'t tell me that winning the BC Classic wouldn\'t put her squarely in the picture. Stack a winning Classic performance against what Rachel has done, and that includes factoring in WHO she beat (which I have already talked about) and you do have a justifiable argument for Z. The older males she beat are nice horses but far less compared to the Classic field, the 3YO males she beat in the Preakness have come back to do nothing, and the Haskell was over a speed favoring sloppy track. Yes its admirable, but I don\'t know why some of you just dismiss the Classic as vitrually non-existant.

Michael D,

Winning BC performances have vaulted many horses to HOY (You obviously know this, not being insulting here). She\'s also won other races this year, they do count. Add the Classic, against a world wide field, thats got to count for something. Thanks for seeing my point of view, and I look forward to your BC thoughts as the day gets closer.

Rick,
I would need at least 5/1, and I wouldn\'t get it. She\'ll be no more than 3/1.

Mike,

A bit of a WC bias?? Sure, but its not blind. I think my points are valid. Agree with your thoughts regarding IF Z wins the Classic. Regarding figures, you make a great point about figs on synthetics compared to dirt. Lets see what happens in the Classic before we dismiss Z as not having beaten \"faster\" colts.

Thank you all for your thoughts. Whatever you think about the HOY debate or which race Z should run in, it makes for interesting discussion. And since we can\'t change the fact the BC is being run over synthetics again. lets enjoy the anticipation of the BC and relish seeing horses from all over the world compete. Just got my tickets in the mail yesterday and can\'t wait to get there.