Opinions are like butts.

[Flighted Iron]

\"It was a turf race. It absolutely was the Pro-Ride surface\" that beat him, said Steve Asmussen, who trains Curlin. \"He ran his heart out and gave it all he had.\"



\"Maybe he\'s not a synthetic surface specialist,\" said Curlin\'s jockey, Robby Albarado. \"He was paddling around.


Maybe Albarado is blowing hot air.Just kinda backing up his boss and all.You know.
Or maybe he\'s giving us the straight deal.Quite frankly,all the sheet makers,trainers,blacksmiths,vets and keen eyed and cat-bird positioned handicappers in the world don\'t know jack about the feedback that horse is giving
during the race.

Believe what you like.

[richiebee]

I am not going to comment on Curlin/ Asmussen/ Albarado, except to say that
I was happy they were there at 4/5 in a spot where I personally never thought
they had a chance to win.

Will be interesting to see if Curlin attempts one more race before years end
to try to strengthen his HOY cred.

The reason I am in on Flighted\'s string is because of the title. On a recent
visit to the Ragozin board, two posters who were excommunicated by the Thoro-
Pope are hard at work plying their trade, knocking our host and the TG product.
And for those who were lucky enough to miss it, I note that the poorly costumed
Clown predicted an unhappy ending for Student Council much the way he did for
Denis of Cork.

Yes, Opinions are like Assholes. Everybody has one. Some just stink a lot more
than others.

[imallin]

they can\'t blame the track. Curlin worked over this track and was here a few weeks in advance and they still entered to run. If he couldn\'t handle it, they would have known that in advance. Once you commit to run, you say that your horse can handle it, you can\'t have it both ways and blame the track if you lose. Be a man and give credit to the 3 better animals who beat you to the wire.

[richiebee]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And for those who were lucky enough to miss it, I
> note that the poorly costumed
> Clown predicted an unhappy ending for Student
> Council much the way he did for
> Denis of Cork.

This was \"Cube\'s\" post (Rag Board) on October 21, 8:58 AM:

\"Student Council has made a nice appearance in his final
blowout he ran well but the injury he\'s been developing
manifested itself with a sharp duck out. A horse with an
infirmity is taxed more severely on Poly Surfaces ()
and if he runs I hope the kiddies don\'t cheer the meat wagon
thinking its an ice cream truck.\"

We\'ve come to expect this from the Clown. I am a little surprised
at Len.
 
> Yes, Opinions are like Assholes. Everybody has
> one. Some just stink a lot more
> than others.

[miff]

Iron,

I said it long before,most horse will not be able to run as fast on synths as they do on dirt. There is a substantial difference the way a horse travels over dirt vs turf/synths, the shoes he wears, and some things which are still unknown, mayyyyyybe even conformation.


Mike

[TGJB]

No sweat with those two guys, I\'ve been down this road before, and with a guy who was a lot smarter, a lot more motivated, and a lot better at it than they are. Let \'em rant. It\'s an echo chamber over there.

As for Len, I\'m not surprised at all. I predicted way back when they changed the format of their board that he would continue to let guys take shots at me, and delete those who take our side.

[TGJB]

Miff-- I have to say, there were some big figures and fast times run by fillies over that stuff. Haven\'t done the colts yet.

[miff]

\"Miff-- I have to say, there were some big figures and fast times run by fillies over that stuff. Haven\'t done the colts yet\"



Understandable with the fastest horses in the world running, but without even seeing your figs,they\'ll be ground loaded, especially if the fillies.I am interested to know how much you will be adjusting for the ridiculously fast track speed(if not proprietary).


Mike

[P.Eckhart]

Has any empirical work been done on ground loss (on any surface). eg Looking at pairs of two horse matchups re-opposing each other within six weeks or so.

[TGJB]

MIff-- there was some variance during the days and sprint/route, but in general terms, about 13 points faster than 10/17 Belmont, if that helps you. By memory (I would have to dig through the paper records in the storage bins to check, and I ain\'t gonna) it\'s no faster than the California tracks used to be 20 years ago. In fact, slower by a few fifths.

But yeah, a lot faster than dirt tracks these days.

On the \"wides\"-- a lot of horses raced wide over the two days. Some earned good figures, many did not. I\'m not going to end up giving out too many new tops, and almost all will go to young, developing horses. Several of which were first lasix, some of which raced near the inside.

The rail issue is a mess. Some horses ran terrible on it, some ran well, including some that I know ran on the rail through the stretch-- don\'t have complete records on that. Right now I\'m not inclined to give out a dead rail.

[miff]

JB,

Thanks,you may wish to know that three NY jocks(present and former) that rode in pro ride races felt that the outer paths were tighter.I think you have it correct by saying that the rail was NOT dead but the outside may have been firmer footing.

Re track speed, yes,I was referring to todays dirt surfaces. Interesting comments from many, including a disappointed Asmussen that Curlin lost on turf, TWICE!


Mike

[TGJB]

When we put up the days probably tomorrow) you will see that a lot of horses that were wide on the turn didn\'t run particularly well.

We\'re trying to see if the rail in the stretch was dead.

[miff]

When a horse is empty, not even a favorable path will help.


Mike

[miff]

\"Horses with a quick, low action like she has aren't able to dig in," Baffert said. "They bounce up and down more. Indian Blessing really struggled with the track, but I wasn't surprised. She got beat by a hell of a performance (from Ventura)."

\"In the immediate aftermath of the Classic, Curlin's trainer, Steve Asmussen, said European horses have an edge on synthetic tracks because they are more conducive to grass runners\"

[sighthound]

\"Horses with a quick, low action like she has aren't able to dig in," Baffert said. "They bounce up and down more. Indian Blessing really struggled with the track, but I wasn't surprised. She got beat by a hell of a performance (from Ventura)."

Interesting comment on running style affinity, but additionally, what are the shoe restrictions (bends, rims, etc) on Pro-ride - are they the same as for Polytrack?

I noticed at Keeneland this meet several horses running with no hind shoes at all, and seeming to still do well.  Also noticed plenty of horses with beautiful, low, long-striding action eating up the stretch and finishing strong.