Veru suspicious jump up at Philly Park

[covelj70]

I have a horse running in the 9th tomorrow at Philly Park.  The race is a nw3x.

I am going through the sheets when I notice a most suspicious pattern/development.

There is a horse called Spirit of Gulch who raced 10 times as a 3 year old and then 4 more times as a 4 year old with his best lifetime number being a 3 with alot of his numbers being 10\'s or higher.  Many of these races were in lower level claiming company.

Then, earlier this year, he is claimed out of a 10k claimer by Eberd Estrada and he suddenly runs 3 races in 5 weeks that are 0, 2.25 NEGATIVE and 1.5 NEGATIVE with the latter two numbers coming in a nw2 and an overnight stake.

There were no equipment changes noted on the Form and, most importantly, none of his 4 siblings ran a better number as a 4 year old than they did as a 3 year old.  Neither did his dam improve as a 4 year old.  Gulch\'s do show improvement at 4 according to the TGI but he had already run several races as a 4 year old under the old trainer without even coming close to his 3 year old top, let alone making huge new negative tops.

I have to say, I read every post on this board about drug use and it\'s something  I am very concerned about but this issue takes on a whole new meaning when my horse would be the most likely winner (according to the sheets) if not for this very likely drug-added monster who he is up against.

Getting any kind of return as an owner is tough enough without this kind of nonsense.  It was one thing when they were running for peanuts down at Philly but this race is for 48k so not a insignificant amount we are talking about me and my fellow owners likely being cheated out of.

[Rick B.]

covelj70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to say, I read every post on this board
> about drug use and it\'s something  I am very
> concerned about but this issue takes on a whole
> new meaning when my horse would be the most likely
> winner (according to the sheets) if not for this
> very likely drug-added monster who he is up
> against.
>
> Getting any kind of return as an owner is tough
> enough without this kind of nonsense.  It was one
> thing when they were running for peanuts down at
> Philly but this race is for 48k so not a
> insignificant amount we are talking about me and
> my fellow owners likely being cheated out of.

C\'mon...you don\'t think it\'s \"likely\" at all. You think it\'s certain.

And if that\'s the case, you should go right to the authorities with your evidence. Hints and allegations are all over this forum, but in the end, they don\'t accomplish much.

[hooper]

Cove,what ownership group are you involved with? I have a piece of two horses with Team Valor and have enjoyed the experience. Partnerships are a great way for the limited investor to participate. I\'ve come a long way since walking hots at Narragansett as a youth for spending money.
Anyone here remember Junie Bresnahan or DicK Gottsman on the New England circuit?

[covelj70]

hooper,

I am involved with a bunch.  Own pieces of about 20 horses in total.  Several with with Jerry, Roger and the TG boys, a bunch with West Point and some on my own with friends.

Good luck

[covelj70]

Rick B,

What exaclty would you propose that I do?  Walk into the racing office and show them a bunch of numbers on a page that they won\'t understand and tell them that they shouldn\'t let that horse run tomorrow?

I use words like \"likely\" because I obviously don\'t have any hard evidence but when logic and reason tell you things don\'t make sense, there is usually something going on.

It was obvious that the Enron and Worldcom managements were doing something wrong a long time before we had any hard evidence of that but should we have just turned a blind eye to the billions they were cheating investors out of because we didn\'t yet have any hard evidence or should we be appropriately suspicious because companies don\'t generate the kind of returns that Enron was generating without fradulent accounting?

[Rick B.]

Wait...you wrote in another post that you have some ownership interest in several horses with \"Jerry and the TG boys\" -- not to be an idiot, just want to be clear -- did you mean \"Jerry\" as in Jerry Brown, and \"TG\" as in Thoro-Graph?

[Ntheiroff]

Hooper

And John Miele..

[covelj70]

yes.

[imallin]

Maybe Eberd Estrada is the next Charlie Whittingham and he\'s doing this on oats, hay and incredible horsemanship skills.

At any rate, if you own thoroughbred racehorses and actually need the money, you need to employ a trainer as skilled as Eberd..you need to keep up with the Joneses.

I don\'t own one thoroughbred at this moment but if i was going to purchase one, my horse would be going directly to one of these \'supertrainers\'.

Unfortunately, if you don\'t employ a supertrainer yourself, you\'re going to be beaten by one on a regular basis. You\'re either going to have to accept it, or do something about it....the only thing that you can do about it is to hire one of these magicians yourself.

[sighthound]

9th Race

Next Post 4:29  Off: 4:02 | 6 Furlongs | 3 Year Olds And Up | Allowance Optional Claiming ($40,000) | Purse: $51,840

# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
8 P. Kerney  Madrigal R Jr 120 9.80 6.20 3.20
7 Just Don  Farley J A 113  14.20 6.60
4 Spirit of Gulch  Vega H 120   2.80


Times in 5ths:  :221  :444  :564    1:091

Times in 100ths:  :22.23  :44.80  :56.88    1:09.27

Also ran: Hobbitontherocks, Stormy Prince, War Tempo, Cat On the Line and Euro Code

Winning Trainer: Trombetta Michael J - Owner: Clark, Nancy and Heyman, Fred

[TGJB]

Rick B.: you\'re back.

So explain to me what your position is. That no drugs are being used to move up horses? That they are, but we should all just pull down our pants and bend over?That no-one should speak up unless they actually sneak into a barn, get their own sample, and send it to a lab?

Do you understand the distinction between evidence, and proof in a court of law? Are you under the impression this is a court of law? Do you think things will change (assuming you think there is a problem, which you may not) if nobody speaks up? What would lead you to believe things will change otherwise?

Do you know how much TCO2 a horse can produce in its own, and what the threshold level is for a positive? (Hint-- two numbers far apart). Do you know how many horses are being tested for EPO? (Hint-- it costs money, the tracks don\'t want to spend it). Do you know how many samples are being frozen? (Hint-- few or none-- YET).

I will say the same thing to you I said to someone else who posts here, off board. Assuming that the changes that are in the works are actually made, I predict major changes in winning percentages for many \"top\" trainers next year (as they already have started to in California). If that happens, I expect you to post here acknowledging you were wrong. If they don\'t, I will post here saying I was wrong.

[Ian Meyers]

Is it possible, even likely that they institute a whole battery of tests and the offenders just find something else they are not testing for?

Every little bit of testing helps but there are still some ridiculous winning %\'s in jurisdictions where they are testing (places like steroid free PA).  We have come a long way from the days of \"elephant juice\" and OSB.

[TGJB]

This is why I have been pushing for freezing blood. The cheaters are ahead of the testers, but the testers will catch up, and if you couple freezing with SERIOUS sanctions you will have the beginning of a solution.

[tmon]

Just curious how much are all of these tests going to cost?