Better living through chemicals

[Dudley]

Is it still cheating if it\'s not illegal?
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Stanozolol
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Legal status Prescription only
(US)
 
Routes Oral, Intramuscular
Stanozolol, commonly sold under the name Winstrol (oral) and Winstrol Depot (intra-muscular), was developed by Winthrop Laboratories in 1962. It is a synthetic anabolic steroid derived from testosterone, and has been approved by the FDA for human use.

Unlike most injectable anabolic steroids, Stanozolol is not esterified and is sold as an aqueous suspension, or in oral tablet form. The drug has a large oral bioavailability, due to a C17 α-alkylation which allows the hormone to survive first pass liver metabolism when ingested. It is because of this that Stanozolol is also sold in tablet form.

Stanozolol is usually considered a safer choice for female bodybuilders in that it rewards a great amount of anabolism for a small androgenic effect, however virilization and masculinization are still very common, even at low doses.

Stanozolol has been used on both animal and human patients for a number of conditions. In humans, it has been demonstrated to be successful in treating anaemia and hereditary angioedema. Veterinarians may prescribe the drug to improve muscle growth, red blood cell production, increase bone density and stimulate the appetite of debilitated or weakened animals.

Stanozolol is one of the Anabolic steroids commonly used as an ergogenic aid and is banned from use in sports competition under the auspices of the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) and many other sporting bodies.

[Rick B.]

Dudley Wrote:
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> Is it still cheating if it\'s not illegal?
> ----------------------------------------------

One of the definitions of the word \"cheat\" is \"to violate rules dishonestly\".
 
The use of Winstrol is allowed under the rules of horse racing in most but not all states; however, all of the states in which Big Brown has raced allow the use of Winstrol.

No rules violation, ergo, not cheating.

[TGJB]

Just noticed this. RED BLOOD CELL PRODUCTION!?!? We\'re allowing a drug that helps red blood cell production??? Who needs $%*&^ing EPO?

Anybody still want to question whether horses are running faster today, and one of the reasons why?

Just unbelievable that racing would allow this at all, let alone without giving the info out like lasix information. Unbelievable that an industry that has the responsibility of running a parimutuel market would allow this, while non-betting events like the Olympics and Tour D\' France would ban someone for life for doing it-- to themselves, voluntarily. Horses don\'t get a vote.

[Silver Charm]

Hey don\'t get so upset. Don\'t rock the boat. Everything is fine out there.


Lots of progress has been made in the last two weeks. Just look at all the roundtable discussions, the hot topics, the hot air.........

[Dudley]

TGJB Wrote:
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> Just noticed this. RED BLOOD CELL PRODUCTION!?!?
> We\'re allowing a drug that helps red blood cell
> production???

Glad you noticed Jerry. That\'s what caught my eye as well- and why I wanted to put this up here. I would have posted it in BOLD in the origninal post had I noticed the feature on this text editor.  And what about the bone density- can that make this one less-fragile- or more dangerously lend that supposition?


The \'cheating\' question was tongue-in-cheek. I know technically he\'s merely taking advantage of what the rules allow- and therein part of the problem lies. Loopholes and lawyers make the world go \'round.

[ronwar]

This stood out to me \"Veterinarians may prescribe the drug to improve muscle growth, red blood cell production, increase bone density and stimulate the appetite of debilitated or weakened animals.\"

It certainly would make sense how a horse would move up drastically if going from a barn that did not subscribe it to one that gives it out once a month on the 15th.

[Dudley]

..and yet there\'s no \"W\" under meds in the PPs... but hey remember all the bruhaha over publishing the use of nasal strips? LOL what a farce. I\'m actually a bit surprised Dutrow came out with his \'secret\'. I\'d imagine more than a few industry titans cringed.

[Dudley]

For those unaware, here\'s the article printed Friday 5/16 in the NY Daily News:
==========================================================================

Big Brown\'s legal doping a concern
BY JERRY BOSSERT in Baltimore and CHRISTIAN RED in New York
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITERS

Friday, May 16th 2008, 9:39 AM
 
 
A week before Big Brown bolted out of the gates at Churchill Downs from the outside post and raced to a thrilling Kentucky Derby victory, the colt's trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. revealed a little secret.

"I give all my horses Winstrol on the 15th of every month," Dutrow told the Daily News. "If (the authorities) say I can't use it anymore, I won't."

In any sport involving humans, a declaration of the use of a powerful steroid like Winstrol would set off alarms and public outrage, given the fallout from recent doping scandals in sports, and as Dutrow and Big Brown head into tomorrow's Preakness, questions have surfaced about the trainer's use of the drug.

In fact, if Big Brown were racing in one of the 10 states that have adopted the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium's model rule allowing the use of four anabolic steroids, including Stanozolol (Wistrol's formal name), for therapeutic uses only, Big Brown might have run into trouble with the doping police, says Dr. Scot Waterman, the RMTC's executive director.

"If one of (Dutrow's) horses were running in (those 10 states) with a dose on the 15th, he'd probably have a positive," said Waterman. "That type of use is what moved us to begin the process we began a couple years ago. It's not just (Dutrow). There was evidence that these products were being overused or abused."

The RMTC, which was established in 2000 after an American Association of Equine Practitioners summit, has pushed through its model rule in 10 of the 38 states that feature horse racing. Similar to baseball, where players must get a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) in order to use banned substances for medical needs, a veterinarian treating a horse with any one of those four steroids approved by the RMTC must submit a Medication Report Form, if the horse is competing in the 10 states (Arizona, Colorado, Washington, Arkansas, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Delaware) that have adopted the rule.

"We're pretty confident that all of the states will be done with the rule-making process by the end of this year," Waterman said.

Questions about horse racing's doping culture and overbreeding reverberated through the sport after the filly Eight Belles collapsed from two broken front ankles as she galloped past the finish line in second place in the Derby. Larry Jones, her trainer, has adamantly insisted she was not on steroids.

Among doping experts, allowing any steroid use is problematic.

"The thing we don't know here, is the particular dose of the drug," said Dr. Don Catlin, who created the Olympic testing lab at UCLA and is among the foremost doping experts in the U.S. "Stanozolol is a long-acting drug, so yeah, it can last a month.\"

"I know (RMTC's) policy," Catlin added. "I don't agree with it. Stanozolol, I can't think of any reason to have that. It's a foreign drug, exogenous. If it's there, it's only there, as far as I'm concerned, for doping. But there are people who'll say they need steroids for the general health and benefit of the horse. I just disagree."

For the past four years, Catlin has been using his two decades of experience from the human side of drug testing to provide insight into how horse racing can address its doping problem, something Catlin believes dates back more than 30 years.

He is working in conjunction with David Nash, the executive director of the Lexington, Ky.-based Equine Drug Research Institute, a non-profit organization "dedicated to providing research grants to institutions to conduct medical research that will benefit horses."

While neither Nash nor Catlin would speculate on whether drugs played a role in Eight Belles' death - an autopsy Thursday revealed no pre-existing bone abnormalities - both hope the tragedy will lead to positive steps toward cleaning up horse racing. Nash would like to see more public donations for research and development. Catlin would like to see a reduction in the number of labs used by horse racing for drug testing (there are 18 across the nation) and a universal drug testing program.

Catlin believes he was brought into the equine world because the sport is getting serious about doping.

"That's why they're talking to me. They certainly wouldn't talk to Catlin if they wanted to keep steroids going," he said. "I talk to them all the time and I have some understanding of the problem. They are trying. It's going to take awhile. It takes events like (Eight Belles), unfortunately, that really moves the apple along its way.

"If there's any good that comes out of this, it's going to come."

[Michael D.]

TGJB Wrote:
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> Anybody still want to question whether horses are
> running faster today, and one of the reasons why?


glad you asked.

other than BB, they are running no faster than Secretariat and Sham, and Sham ran faster than those colts behind Big Brown on Saturday and in Ky.

why? when it comes to Big Red and Sham, the steroids are neutralized by the  Princequillo factor when it comes to the longer distances. Secretariat and Sham had larger hearts than most of these animals.

again, with Sham: ran the SA Derby in 1:47 flat, the Ky Derby in 1:59.8 (after a horrible gate incident), and the Preakness in 1:53.9 (DRF clocking).

Jerry, seriously, are you going to tell me with a straight face that Macho Again, Racecar Rhapsody, and Icabad f\'in Crane ran faster than Secretariat and Sham? that Pim strip was by no means slow, and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishers ran around in about 1:56.

and yes, Big Brown, given the wide trip and wind, ran the fastest Derby in history. that doesn\'t make all of these horses fast.


here\'s a stretch of Derby runs 40 or so years ago:

1973 Secretariat (T) R. Turcotte 1:59 2/5
1972 Riva Ridge R. Turcotte 2:01 4/5
1971 Canonero II G. Avila 2:03 1/5
1970 Dust Commander M. Manganello 2:03 2/5
1969 Majestic Prince B. Hartack 2:01 4/5
1968 Forward Pass I. Valenzuela 2:01 4/5
1967 Proud Clarion B. Ussery 2:00 3/5
1966 Kauai King D. Brumfield 2:02
1965 Lucky Debonair W. Shoemaker 2:01 1/5
1964 Northern Dancer B. Hartack 2:00
1963 Chateaugay B. Baeza 2:01 4/5
1962 Decidedly B. Hartack 2:00 2/5

[ronwar]

Yea, Dutrow disclosing that took a lot of the \"voodoo\" aspect away for me.  Regardless if he\'s using anything else, that\'s enough to connect some if not all of the dots for me.

Can you really blame a trainer for using all the edge he can, especially if the industry allows it.

[TGJB]

Michael-- how many times are we going to go through this? As I have said many times, in N.Y.-- where I know it for a fact-- the cushion depth was 2 1/2 inches when Secretariat was running, over 4 last time I checked, and the soil composition has a much higher sand to clay ratio, which makes the track slower when dry (and faster when wet). If you can find accurate records for CD (Porcelli had to look things up for me) I\'m pretty sure you will find the same thing, since the idea behind the change was safety. You can\'t use raw times, any more than you can use them in regular handicapping.

And by the way, every vet and many others who I heard speak publicly about the Eight Belles tragedy said we are breeding faster horses, and that was part of the problem.

[miff]

Dudley,

This is old news. There are legal steroids in some states(ny included) and many trainers use them occasionally/regularly even the ones \"revered\" on this board as great horsemen.Trainers strictly using hay and oats are hanging by a thread in many cases.Any trainer not using every legal means to help his horse is probably spotting lenghts.

It\'s no secret and Tricky recently mentioned that he had no idea if Winstrol helped but he knows it can\'t hurt.Five years ago his vet(unknown) told him it would help his horses recover from the stress of racing more quickly.


Mike

[Michael D.]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michael-- how many times are we going to go
> through this? As I have said many times, in N.Y.--
> where I know it for a fact-- the cushion depth was
> 2 1/2 inches when Secretariat was running, over 4
> last time I checked, and the soil composition had
> a much higher sand to clay ratio, which makes the
> track slower when dry (and faster when wet). If
> you can find accurate records for CD (Porcelli had
> to look things up for me) I\'m pretty sure you will
> find the same thing, since the idea behind the
> change was safety. You can\'t use raw times, any
> more than you can use them in regular
> handicapping.


Jerry, you have not made the case regarding track speeds. I am more than willing to listen if you have something new. we all know about the NY tracks, but that has nothing to do with what I wrote. I would like to see some evidence on the CD track surface, comparing the \'62 to \'73 period to the \'98 to \'08 period. did the surface slow by 30 lengths? 50?

Jerry, horses are faster than they used to be, I just disagree on the extent to which you have all these runners improving.


check out this list of Diana Handicap runners, and the times going back to 1973. and note, this race is on turf.

http://nyra.com/Saratoga/Stakes/Diana.shtml

[ajkreider]

And anyway, we\'ve little or no idea of what else trainers in previous generations were giving their horses.  There was a story a bit ago about what Seabiscuit\'s trainer gave him, and it wasn\'t just HOW.  I\'m sure some trainers, somewhere, gave their horses a stimulant of some sort or another.

[ajkreider]

Interesting that if this is true, and such steroids are banned universally, it could lead to MORE breakdowns, as horse might have less bone density.

Though, with less muscle mass, perhaps that would be less of a problem (perhaps fewer tendon injuries as well, but I\'m no vet.)