How fast was it?

[fkach]

Oh sure, I understand that some of these treatments help horses with health problems and recovery.  

Nexium used to help my acid reflux and another couple of prescriptions helped me get to sleep when I was stressed out. But I quit my job and changed my diet and now I don\'t need either.

I guess what I\'m saying is that I\'d prefer that horses that need these drugs not train vigorously or compete until they don\'t need them anymore. There\'s a fine line between what I would find acceptable and not, but I\'m in no position to dictate my values anway. ;-)

[miff]

The point many are missing on the legal race day and in between legal race day stuff is simply without them the game would virtually be history. Many less racing days, much smaller fields and added economic pressures on the owners, trainers, workers and race track operators.

It\'s nice to have a purist attitude but without some type of help these animals would race maybe half as much and racing at the main tracks would suffer dramatically.A common sense approach to the whole drug issue supported by strong testing and lifetime banishment for serious offences would eliminate a great deal of this problem.The backbone of the disingenuous/incompetent race track operators is racings major stumbling block.


Mike

[fkach]

miff,

Personally, I wouldn\'t have a problem if there was a dramatic reduction in the sport that resulted from the elimination of drugs. I think the sport is absoluting begging for a dramatic reduction anyway. The economics suck as they exist now.  

In the era of internet and simulcast wagering, we don\'t need dozens of uneconomic racetracks diluting the total gambling pie and being supported by slot machines when the land and properties could be put to much better use. All we need are small simulcast facilties and broadband in every home.

If we closed all the uneconomic tracks, I\'d be willing to bet that most of the gambling dollars would simply be redirected towards the remaining viable tracks in high population areas and vacation spots (Belmont, Saratoga, Del Mar, Santa Anita, Gulfstream, Arlington, Churchill, Keeneland etc...). The pools would be gigantic, the purses enormous, the money available to invest in the facilties monstrous. Even the fields would be large because the horse population wouldn\'t be so diluted. Heck, the purses might be so large if a successful 3YO sneezed the owners might not retire him. There might even be some room to cut the take because of the economies of scale.

Granted that a shrinkage like that would be painful to all the losers, but the consolidation of any overextended industry is painful until you get to the other side where the returns are higher and the remaining businesses are strong and profitable.

I\'m not saying we should throw in the towel on the industry, but times have changed.

[lfe2211]

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point many are missing on the legal race day
> and in between legal race day stuff is simply
> without them the game would virtually be history.
> Many less racing days, much smaller fields and
> added economic pressures on the owners, trainers,
> workers and race track operators.
>
> It\'s nice to have a purist attitude but without
> some type of help these animals would race maybe
> half as much and racing at the main tracks would
> suffer dramatically.A common sense approach to the
> whole drug issue supported by strong testing and
> lifetime banishment for serious offences would
> eliminate a great deal of this problem.The
> backbone of the disingenuous/incompetent race
> track operators is racings major stumbling block.
>
>
> Mike

Racing in Europe and Japan are conducted without the use of exogenous drugs. The purses in Japan are astronomical and the betting handle is about twice that of the US in less than half the total number of races per year.

(somewhat dated betting and racing stats in this reference)

http://www.scientificgames.com/sgcorp/industryinforacing.asp

The drug rules for The Japan Racing Association (Table 2, bottom of page) are here:

http://japanracing.jp/japan/rules.html

Why not emulate Europe and Japan and eliminate all exogenous drugs. I\'d personally like to see fewer racing days with bigger fields of drug free horses. It\'s probably a naive wish but I think US horse racing would be the better for it.

[miff]

States have parochial views on the loss of revenue, so you can forget about them giving up racing for \"the good of the game\" Don\'t disagree about overseas racing or less racing, it just wont happen here.


Mike

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

high roller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lfe2211 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This may set off a firestorm but I have to ask
> the
> > question. What current testing methodology
> would
> > prevent TAP & Allday from blood doping Lawyer
> Ron
> > for the Whitney?
>
>
THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD ARE GETTING MORE AND MORE
> BIZARRE AS TIME GOES ON. I GUARANTEE THAT ALL THE
> PEOPLE WHO ARE BLAMING TAP/ALLDAY ARE LOSING THEIR
> SHIRTS AND HAVE RESORTED TO THIS IN ORDER TO HAVE
> A SCAPEGOAT. WHAT LOSER\'S!

Oh, I get it. If you win on Allday/Pletch he ain\'t cheating, you are just a superior handicapper. Its that simple isn\'t it? \"I won betting on Allday/Pletch, therefore Pletch runs clean.\"  Thats tantamount to the naked contention that he has \"The best people\", \"best horses\" and \"most experience\". Give us a break. This site is about handicapping, where are the critical thinkers?

FYI I  am on record taking a stand with Pletch out of the money in the Triple Crown, when the vast majority of this board considered him unbeatable. He did spoil my run in the Belmont, but that horse is now inexplicably sick.  I also won the Whitney, but the facts involving that race cannot allow one to subordinate whats patently obvious to a cash at the window.

I was at Gulfstream on Fountain of Youth day and Pletcher murdered me, but its not always about winning and losing though overall I have a very good record against Pletch and the other big cheaters in the game.

Regardless of R.O.I. cheating is still cheating and winning is not evidence that there is no cheating.

Lastly, I have intentionally avoided your implication that Pletch is your banker. There is absolutely no evidence of that.

[miff]

Chuck, as usual you got it half right.

\"Regardless of R.O.I. cheating is still cheating and winning is not evidence that there is no cheating\"



.......nor is winning alone evidence that there is cheating.If I posted a roster of all the horses in the present care of TAP and told he would average winning one out of four, you would conclude he is an ordinary trainer/horseman.

Mike

[Barry Irwin]

Chuckles, the trace amount of the illegal drug found in the Pletcher horse was about the size of your brain, so as far as most are concerned, it was a non event.

[Silver Charm]

So another words Barry almost undetectable by even the most sophisticated of microscopes.

As a matter of fact it is almost a miracle they even found it.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

The half I assumed is given and the knowledgeable understand it. Winning can be cheating when the facts indicate that the wins are out of the course of context.

Lawyer Ron and Pletch\'s photos are there under that definition.

It doesn\'t boil down to two half\'s anyway. Winning can never indicate a horse ran clean, but a win can sure prove a horse ran substance aided. Once again, refer to Lawyer Ron and Pletch.  

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chuck, as usual you got it half right.
>
> \"Regardless of R.O.I. cheating is still cheating
> and winning is not evidence that there is no
> cheating\"
>
>
>
> .......nor is winning alone evidence that there is
> cheating.If I posted a roster of all the horses in
> the present care of TAP and told he would average
> winning one out of four, you would conclude he is
> an ordinary trainer/horseman.
>
> Mike

[spa]

Chuckles,if AGS wins the big race,take a pill and go to bed early.........

[Michael D.]

have a ton of respect for Curlin, and believe HS can bounce back cutting to 9F at Mth, but AGS from the rail under 118 looks like the play to me. 5/2 is fair.

[Anonymous User]

Snap a leg, Curlin. Right. In. Front. Of. The Crowd!

[marcus]

What kind of number you figure  ? IMO- AGS is special + Good for Pletcher and at least he\'s giving better interviews since  winning the Black Eyed Susan and Belmont ...

[alm]

Absolutely.

It\'s ridiculous to claim drugs are keeping horses on the track, enabling them to race more or longer...anymore than cyclists\' use of drugs are making for bigger fields in races like the Tour d\'France.

Drugs help horses win, period.  It would be a different story if they were legal and available equally throughout the business, but they are not.

My horses never race or train on drugs and they\'ve had above average career starts.  They also have a trainer who cares for them the old fashioned way.  In fact, most people who train horses are honest.

Today the jockey said Any Given Saturday was a different horse since his race in the Derby.  That was the only honest thing connected with his performance.