How fast was it?

[Michael D.]

the Whitney -

when a 29-1 Kee and slop loving speedball comes in 2nd and the 24-1 longshot closer comes in last, and a 14-1 speedball comes in 4th and a 9-1 closer comes in 2nd to last, you immediately start to look for a bias. when you go through all the horses, there was indeed a bias towards the speed/stalker types. the track was super fast for that race for some reason.

hate to redboard after the bad pick in the 7th, but Lawyer Ron was ready to explode. he was a negative 1 type last year before Pletcher got him (could be a negative 3 without Pletcher), and he had the negative \'2\' in his 1M prep. made me think a negative \'4\' or \'5\' was well within his reach stretching to 9F, especially given the five weeks of nutrients and conditioning.

as for the sprint, Diabolical certainly is the real deal. Attila is honest, possibly even great with Velazquez up. nice close from Simon. interesting comparing Benny\'s TG figs vs the Beyers. made the 5/2 look short. also interesting comparing Ginger\'s negative 2 vs the 104 Beyer in the f&m race.

good day for NYRA, though I would rather see the good ones spread out a bit, especially if it precludes a Sunday with four straight state bred races.

[lfe2211]

This may set off a firestorm but I have to ask the question. What current testing methodology would prevent TAP & Allday from blood doping Lawyer Ron for the Whitney?

[high roller]

lfe2211 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This may set off a firestorm but I have to ask the
> question. What current testing methodology would
> prevent TAP & Allday from blood doping Lawyer Ron
> for the Whitney?


THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD ARE GETTING MORE AND MORE BIZARRE AS TIME GOES ON. I GUARANTEE THAT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BLAMING TAP/ALLDAY ARE LOSING THEIR SHIRTS AND HAVE RESORTED TO THIS IN ORDER TO HAVE A SCAPEGOAT. WHAT LOSER\'S!

[lfe2211]

My post was not sour grapes due to a losing bet. I have no axe to grind re TAP. Again, is the current testing methodology capable of demonstrating blood doping in horses by any trainer, either with exogenous drugs like EPO or by transfusion of autologous (the horse\'s own) blood ?

[ronwar]

\"especially given the five weeks of nutrients and conditioning\"

I not a Pletcher hater, but that made laugh out loud

[Barry Irwin]

The only \"firestorm\" your comment is likely to set off would be one of uncontrollable laughter. Perhaps you should change your screen name to something like \"Chuckles 22ll.\"

[lfe2211]

\"The only \"firestorm\" your comment is likely to set off would be one of uncontrollable laughter.\"

Barry, I don\'t read this board as frequently as some of the regulars here. Could you just answer my question, please? Pardon my ignorance if it\'s a dumb question.

[Barry Irwin]

It is a dumb question.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Barry....

This is the TG board after all. If it\'s fast.... its gotta be the drugs.....as the common cry from the same suspects.

One other thing....I guess \"dirt\" is always better than \"poly\" for consistency race to race.....

NC Tony

[TGJB]

Tony-- yeah, you\'re right. When Frankel\'s entire barn-- made up almost exclusively of older horses-- got 4 points faster at the same time in the spring of 2001, it was just an amzing coincidence.

As it happens, Barry is one of us on the front lines of the battle against drugs. I\'m guessing we have a disgreement as to who some of the violators are.

For the record, as I\'ve been doing days recently I\'ve seen several small outfits (especially at Mth) move several runners way up. My guess is that there is a rogue vet on the loose-- and we would know who if they printed a vet of record in the program. Another guess is it\'s \"legal\" milkshaking-- below the 37 level.

[Barry Irwin]

As for cheating and who is and who isn\'t, I would tend to agree with anything Jerry Brown came up with, because when one is doing the type of work he does, this person has the best evidence available. In these instances, the figures do not lie.

While cheating will never be totally eliminated, I think that if racing jurisdictions were really interested in finding out which trainers had become too hot, they would consult with a guy like Jerry, because his evidence doesn\'t lie.

From my perspective, I see some trainers that used to cheat that appear to have stopped, and a few others that have embraced the dark side.

The ones that have stopped have undoubtedly done so because they do not want to risk losing everything they have built up.

The ones that are still trying to take an edge are those desperados who are either too dumb to stop or too desperate.

Some trainers used to cheat to attract attention to their training prowess. Once they convinced some owners that they were geniuses, they weaned themselves off the juice.

Yet others joined the fray because they knew who was cheating with what juice and since these jerks were not being punished, the guys that joined the fray did so as a matter of survival.

The biggest culprit and the man that did more to advance a cheating culture was the former administrative head of the California Horse Racing Board Roy Wood, who cut deals, swept violations under the rug and by his actions encouraged trainers to use drugs.

It has taken a long time to change this California attitude, but I do see hopeful signs.

Interestingly, I wonder what the advent of Polytrack will be in California, as some trainers have become quite desperate to land in the winners circle of late. These guys may be prime candidate to return to their juicing.

[Silver Charm]

Barry,

A couple of things. I for one do not believe Pletcher is juicing anymore. He has the best people and the best horses. He also gives his horses considerable time between races which is conducive to large tops. We saw some of all of the above work together on Saturday with Lawyer Ron.

Also very interesting what you said about the impact of Polytrack on SmellMar. (As in the racing stinks). There are people who have invested heavily in dirt pedigree horses because they are generally the races with most money and prestige. Only to find their investment is being washed away. This is because they are competing on a circuit where only turf horses seem to win. See In Summation in the Crosby.

There has not been anywhere near enough testing on the Polytrack surface. Players, Trainers and Owners are being blown out the game because of a poorly planned integration program.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Jerry,

I was not going back in time with Frankel. It has nothing to do with Frankel. I never said some guys don\'t use whatever means possible to win.

All I am saying is it very typical for certain individuals who post on this board to always associate fast times to drugs.

It\'s a statement of fact. I\'m not saying it is or is not drugs - EPO or Milkshaking. I just don\'t think it\'s right or fair to always associate Great performances with Drugs.

I would love to hear Chuckles the Clown  or any one else who feels as strongly as he does about one vet in particular, you included Jerry, call in and ask Steve Allday directly about his super human skills, on Alldays weekly appearance on  Steve Byk\'s Radio Show \"At the Races\"  on Sirius Sattellite Radio 126 and confront the man (ALLDAY) directly about his association to outstanding performances and the drugs he uses. I listen to him weekly. Ask him if he would be willing to have his name in program etc etc.

I wish you could get the man to post on this board and confront his accusers who like to hide behind screen names.

NC Tony

PS Is Frankel Clean now?

[NoCarolinaTony]

So with that being said Barry, with you feeling as strongly as you do about cheating, that Todd Pletcher is not a cheater. Can you please set the record straight here?

I\'d like to believe that what we saw this Saturday was an outstanding performance by a horse combined with an outstanding performance by a trainer and not a drugged up innuendo.

Thanks,

NC Tony

[TGJB]

Seriously, Tony. If someone is doing something illegal, you think they\'re going to say so? And, it\'s not up to Allday whether his name is in the program or not-- and from what I hear, he likes as much publicity as possible.