Invasor?

[basket777]

Kflack wrote  This one hurts. I thought Invasor was on the verge of real greatness. It\'s a shame he got hurt given that they were actually going to run him.


Might i add he won 11 0f 12 races  for 7.8 million  that million dollars

his last 3 races all winners were the breeders cup the donn handicap and the dubia world cup.

at what point to you call a horse great?   if you were the owner wouldn\'t this be a great horse.  he too on all comers and how about that won.

[fkach]

I would have liked to have seen a little more in the US because I think he was on his way to being top 10 in my lifetime. IMHO, he was still improving. That\'s a very scary thought.

[Silver Charm]

Hey guys are you not jumping the gun a little here?

He raced how many times in the US??? Five

Yah he won in Dubai and the Classic and was 5 for 5 in America.

But who accomplished more???

Silver Charm or Invasor........

[fkach]

We are saying the same thing. His US/Dubai career was a little too short for a coronation, but the fact that he was still relatively lightly raced and improving makes you wonder what he could have accomplished this year given how much he did accomplish so quickly.

[coachbowlin]

If you consider the fact that thousands of horses are born each year, many don\'t make it to the track, many don\'t ever win, even fewer win a graded stakes race, even fewer than that win a G1 race....then consider that this horse won the 2 biggest dirt races in the world with a solid win in between...I consider him GREAT! Maybe he wasn\'t greater than Silver Charm or Ghostzapper or Cigar or rank anywhere near your personal top 25 \"greatest\" horses but he was definitely a great horse.

[P-Dub]

At some point the line is drawn at great and very good.

To call him great, despite his impressive brief resume, does a disservice to the truly GREAT horses like Forego, Secretariat, Bid, etc...

Theres a reason its called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good.  The word great is thrown around all too often in conversation,  so much that it loses its meaning.

I\'m not knocking him, just don\'t call him great in the same breath as those that have truly earned that distinction.

[Silver Charm]

>I\'m not knocking him, just don\'t call him great in the same breath as those that >have truly earned that distinction.

Well put. I mean what are we talking about here. A little more well traveled version of Mineshaft, Gentleman and Tiznow..............

[richiebee]

P Dub:

NASCAR is experimenting this year with the Car of Tomorrow (COT). Invasor is
clearly a Great Horse of the present age, and it is not fair to compare him to
the outstanding horses of yesteryear:

  Forego--a great will to win, which carried him to victory on days when he was
ouchy, when the track condition or distance or pace scenario worked against
him, when he was matched against much more lightly weighted rivals. As a
gelding,the economics of the sport/business of racing never worked against his
longevity. A lot of sentiment and subjectivity here, but the greatest of the
great ones I have seen--he knew where the wire was, and he wanted to be there
first.

 Secretariat-- yes he had trouble in races that started with \"W\", but many
forget that his last two career (turf) races were two of the fastest races ever
run on that surface (if not the fastest) at that point in time. Beyer
retroactively assigned a number like 130 to his Belmont, a race where he was
doing it all on his own.

 Spec Bid-- Champion 2YO, Champion 3YO and Horse of the Year at 4. Ran 7/8s in
1:20 and 1-1/4 in 1:57.4. 26 for 30 lifetime.

 I am very happy to have seen all 3 of these champions, and the economics of
the sport dictate that I may never see the likes of them again.

 These are horses that put fannies in the seats.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Richie...

You clearly are the master of the keyboard. I was frustrated reading the comparisons of Invasor to the all time greats and clearly agree with your thoughts.

I\'m not sure you can compare the generations. Kind of like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds.

NC Tony

[richiebee]

NCT:

   Thanks for your kind words. Invasor can be called \"great\", as long as P
Dub\'s big 3 are called \"Immortal\". And strange to say that their \"Immortality\"
was not all it could have been-- Forego of course was gelded, Secretariat was
better known as a sire of broodmares than a sire of champions, and Bid was
pretty much a bust at stud.

   As to Bonds, I have no comment. Ruth has two \"asterisks\" next to his name:
the positive one points out that he was an accomplished pitcher in his day; the
negative one reminds us that a lot of potentially great players were excluded
from baseball during Ruth\'s years. IMO the player who gets lost in the shuffle
is the oft injured Ken Griffey Jr., who probably had all the skills to be a
Baseball \"Immortal\", and may not get all the credit he is due when all is said
and done.

[Silver Charm]

Listen both of you. Barry Bonds is a jerk, a steroid user and GREAT PLAYER. He and Babe Ruth share one thing in common. They both withstood the test of time.

Invasor did not...........

There are usually two criteria to be labeled great: Brilliance and Longevity.

There is a very high probability we may never see another GREAT HORSE ever again.............

[NoCarolinaTony]

Silver Charm,

He ran until he was 5. Not his fault he was born in Uruguay.  How many horses can you say won both the Uruguayan Triple Crown and then go on to win the Breeders Cup, followed by the Dubai 6 Million. HE beat everyone, including the so called unbeatable Super Horse Bernadini.Raced all over the country and world. He couldn\'t have done much more in this day and age of Horse racing.

Back in the day, horses Ran, it was a sport. In todays game they run once every 6-8 weeks. (if that). Now it is more of a monetary end game than a sporting event. Sort of like the NBA.

And as you say, only time will tell true greatness. Don\'t really know why we are judging now. In 10-15 years, if you still have a good memory, you might think back and say, geez remember how great the INVASOR was? By that time good Horses will race two or  three times a year, Derby runners will be coming directly out of MSW wins, etc etc. and NYRA will enforce all wagers to be purchased via computer under one id  so it can tax all winnings.


NC Tony

[fkach]

IMO, horses like Ghostzapper and Invasor occupy a different place than Bid, Slew, Affirmed, Secretariat, Forego etc...., but not necessarily because of ability.

They are horses that demonstrated something beyond a single extremely fast figure, peak season, or record of intermittent great races. Their record of development and consistency right from the start of their careers suggests that had they continued running they would have joined that elite group above.

IMO, you just can\'t assume they would have accomplished a lot more had they continued, but they certainly rate above the horses that ran exceptionally well in spots and deserve some kind of special recognition for that.

[marcus]

Invasor was \"great\" and accomplished , perhaps top percent of this century and top 20 or so in the last 50 yrs .  Maybe it\'s best to say Invasor was Great Race Horse and just leave it at that ...
Also , \"great\" photo essay / article(s) today about Invasor at Bloodhorse.com and The Case for Saving Aqueduct @ euidaily.com

[Flighted Iron]

would you consider Ruffian a great horse or a great 3 year old? Do we categorize
accomplishments based on age,duration,gender,competition?