Drug use

[rezlegal]

I preface this email by stating that I firmly believe that illegal drug use \"appears\" to be rampant in horse racing. Many of us look at the same data, whether it be TG numbers, win percentages (regardles of category),the lack of a bounce where there was almost always a bounce and the like. What I find difficult to reconcile, is that if drug use is so prevalent why hasn\'t a single person ratted out the abusers. Think about this rationally--assume there are at least 50 trainers we all suspect on a national basis-assume there are 10 vets involved-you must further assume that the assistants of many of the super trianers also are involved. If you accept these perfectly rational assumtions, it is inconceivable to me that no one has come forward to rat out the cheaters. The more people involved in this abuse increases exponentially the likelihood SOMEONE would come forward. Think about it-- watergate, enron and other frauds where the walls came tumbling down were the result of one person-then 2 etc beginning  to talk about the wrongdoing they were witnessing.. My experience as a trial lawyer requires the rational and logical part of me  to question why there has been not a soul to bare his or her sole. If this were confined to a handful of trainers I would be less troubled by this. Logical responses anyone?

[Sandreadis]

How many professional baseball players have named names about steroids in this sport? Jose Canseco is one. I don\'t know if there are others.What do you stand to gain by ratting people out? Not much IMO. What do you stand to lose? An awful lot IMO. How many thousands of people knew Mark McGuire,Jose Canseco,Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa(to name just a few) were all juiced up? In baseball there is a code of silence that I\'m sure exists in horse racing.

[rezlegal]

you make the point-the steroid scandal in baseball is beginning to unravel-and in baseball is easier to hide the use since you can do it at home-horses cant be drugged in (fill in the name of trainer) bedroom.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Agreed, you have Steve Allday or one of his henchmen showing up at night or working on the horse while it is turned out at a private facility. They build up his muscle, build his oxygen capacity and tamper with acid neutralizers to the point of just being legal. When the recipe (Or Titration as Allday likes to refer to it as) is complete they ship and run.

Few know, Fewer would rat. Those that suspect probably fear deportation. Its a clandestine game baby. Its Espionage Wars. But we know who the Usual Suspects are. They are the guys that began winning all at the same time with the aid of the same facilitator.

CtC

rezlegal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you make the point-the steroid scandal in baseball
> is beginning to unravel-and in baseball is easier
> to hide the use since you can do it at home-horses
> cant be drugged in (fill in the name of trainer)
> bedroom.

[imallin]

I\'m still waiting for the \'real killers\' to send an anonymous letter to the NY Post to confirm that OJ\'s really innocent. After all, if you were the person who got away with murdering Nicole and Ron and found a way to have NOTHING point to you and have EVERYTHING point to Juice, would you be able to sit on the sidelines and not get credit? Also, the real killers would have had to tell SOMEONE, no? There\'s gotta be an individual out there waiting to cashing multi millions from the Enqiurer mag for exclusive ,\"oj didnt do it, i know who did\"

Also, no vet or trainer is going to come out because if they do, their career is over. Or, as Stephen A Smith says, \"Ova\"

Its not as simple as did a horse \'use\' or did he not. Lot more complex than that. you Don\'t bite the hand that feeds you. If a trainer who was retired, for example, came out and said, \"Dr John Doe is a crook, i saw him administer such and such a chemical to this horse on this date, etc\" the vet will just say, \"i did no such thing\" Than, its the trainers word vs the ex-disgruntled trainer\'s word. Also, the TRAINER will look bad because people it makes him an accessory to a crime that he viewed and swept under the rug at the time.

If a vet comes out and fingers another vet, its word vs word, the vet will be labeled as a rat and his professional oath of secrecy will be tainted forever, not much incentive for any trainer or anyone else to \'come out\' with info.

Drug tests come down to physical facts. Unless a person has video proof of another person\'s guilt, what they say doesn\'t mean a whole lot.

[Sandreadis]

The steroid scandal in MLB is not unraveling.It\'s over.After years of turning his head, Bud Selig implemented a universal testing program that addresses the problem. If caught, you are dealt with swiftly and severely. MLB has the $ and organization to do this.Thoroughbred Racing on the other hand...does not.
The majority of thoroughbred horses are intravenously treated regularly with Legal drugs.It is not a red flag when a vet sticks a syringe in a horse. IMO, Administering Illegal drugs to a race horse would not have to be done in a private setting off track.
IMO, human use of anabolic steroids is much easier to recognize than with horses. There are MANY signs and side effects of steroids in humans. It\'s pretty easy to recognize juiced athletes in a locker room setting. I have no idea what a horse on steroids looks like. I know what\'s going on when said trainer claims a horse that has never run above an 80 beyer, 45 days later the horse is running 105 Beyers.

[davidrex]

Sometimes things blow-up after someone with no authority(security guard)stumbles into a situation he doesn\'t understand and won\'t be castrated for(Watergate).
Jeff Mullins gets caught with hose in hand and the guard doesn\'t know him from Adam...BUSTED
A van leaves out of S. Cal. track at 3am and security guard refuses to sweep it under carpet...BUSTED
Conclusion is colusion...if someone who works graveyard shift for less than exceptional wages ,not the brightest star in galaxy and follows orders to the max can nab these guys in compromising situations...sheeitt

[miff]

Sand,

Many trainers use certain steroids, they\'re legal. As far as spotting them in a horse, it\'s not really that hard or differnet from humans.Many of TAP\'s horses have that \"body\" look and I\'m certain they are on a steroid program, why not?

Mike

[alm]

Some really good posts, but stop worrying about steroids...they\'re not the problem in horseracing...blood doping is the problem.

Most of you seem to know that.

The best solution I can see is Federal testing labs and Federal penalties.  Kind of like the approach baseball is taking.  You can\'t rely on individual tracks because they don\'t have the resources to keep up with the cheaters.  You can\'t rely on individual states because the laws are not uniform and never will be.

As long as we have interstate betting, we deserve Federal authority.  It won\'t help me recoup my Preakness bet, but it might put the most notorious perpetrator out of business.

[TGJB]

Miff-- right about the steroids. And more importantly, as I keep saying, is that DRUGGING HORSES IS LEGAL. Specifically, the use of alkalizing agents (milkshakes) as long as you don\'t tube them-- and the stuff is now available in pill form, and being broken up and put into the feed-- and stay under an artificial limit. A horse can\'t produce a CO2 test above around 30 on his own, and the legal limit in all states is either 37 or 39. Lots of people in the industry (including some track excecutives) are well aware of this-- there\'s no issue of anybody getting ratted out. The rule is what it is because the tracks would rather let this continue (they don\'t see a problem) than have close calls on testing that would be challenged in court.

[miff]

Alm,


I think we agree that the \"Magic Bullet\", an illegal designer drug of blood dope combined with a super pain med is being used. I do not agree with the majority who think every trainer who gets a nano positive or a positive for legal stuff that did not clear by race day,is a blatant cheat.

From your post, I assume you know that there are totally honest trainers who   use maintenance meds between starts which are not permitted on race day. Sometimes it can happen that a positive can appear for a very honest trainer because a drug didn\'t clear as usual or a contaminent positive occurs. To lump all these guys together is a mistake.I do not agree with your take on Asmussen. I know he plays close to the line and has gone over it, but I doubt he is a blood doper.There is a difference between blood dope positives and other stuff but agree that all illegal stuff must be stopped.

One problem according to the conspiracy theorists is simply that no horse has special talent and if they are trained by a certain guy, they\'re juiced. Thats nonsense.

mike

[TGJB]

Miff-- on the question of drugs being used between starts, you raise another point. Clenbuterol is legal, and is a valid therapeutic drug when used between starts. When used as a raceday drug it is a powerful bronchial dilator that moves horses up. The only state I know where they do tests for Clenbuterol that determine when it was given is California, and they only started a couple of months ago.

[miff]

JB,

I think if every trainer would use the \"shake\" pill it would even things out, but you can bet that the older trainers won\'t. Did you notice that it is rare for one of the traditional highly respected older trainers to come under scrutiny and that Baffert,Lukas, Zito and Pletcher fought legal court battles to clear their records of nano or contaminated positives.

I wish that I could make a futures bet on who is using the Magic Bullet.The news I hear from people close to this on a testing level is not promising as the illegal chemists are very sharp in masking their creations and changing formulas.

Mike

[miff]

JB,

I have heard the same thing about clen-b and it surprises me to hear what you say about testing for it.


Mike

P.S. I should mention that the human star loons in Hollywood use clen b as a super weight loss drug

[imallin]

Thats why we need ALL TCO2 results published. Its fine to keep hitting a 30, wouldn\'t you like to know which trainer\'s horse ALWAYS test around 30?