Perspectives on artificial track surfaces

[asfufh]

http://www.equidaily.com/bestbet/extras/topic/2007/70222.html

[marcus]

nice link - thanks ...   very interesting accounts on the current state of racing and differing views from opposite directions for and against the new surfaces .

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

The entire Polytrack nonsense is being driven by a few influential people with vested financial interests in the surface becoming adopted sportwide.

Polytrack is like Iraq. There was very little critical thought put into installing the surface. No genuine research into the validity of the premise. No consideration in regard to what would happen after it was installed. No real science, no real research. You were on the Polytrack Bandwagon viewing the project positively with the cult issued Rose Colored Glasses or you were an obstructionist. And like Iraq the Polytrackers went after the wrong culprit. It wasn\'t the tracks. It is the ill bred animal. The Barbaro Stallion. It will blow up in their face and as the carnage unfolds you have to chuckle at their naivety. Bottom line though is that influence pays. Ka-Ching.

asfufh Wrote:
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> http://www.equidaily.com/bestbet/extras/topic/2007
> /70222.html

[Blind Switch]

What a bloviating gastrapod you are.

[Frank]

BS, uh no, lets make it Blind Switch,

Is that the same as f..ing moron? If it is, I\'m with you.

Frank

[Blind Switch]

My bad. And excruciatingly horrible. Mindless bloviating a wonderful thang.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

lol

I really didn\'t think there were any Bushlerjugend left, especially in the cerebral world of handicapping.

Maximum Leader, protector of All Life. Another warrior dies for you, swift and straight as an arrow shot into the sun. Welcome him and let him take his place at the council fire of lost people. Another name, like Sheehan\'s son. Tell them to be patient and ask death for speed; for they are all there but one - I, Blind Switch - Last of the Mohicans.

Iraq will end badly as polytrack will too. Polytrack will take a little longer.

Blind Switch Wrote:
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> What a bloviating gastrapod you are.

[marcus]

ctc2 , how about - \" chuckles of arabia \"  ? - just kidding and metaphorically speaking of course ... i do appreciate the animus position on the new surfaces though . it does seem that a \"philosophical\" approach is being taken and  we are being asked to take alot on \"faith\" - i\'m still relatively new to racing but i can guess what this amount\'s too ...

a couple  of my \"personal\" hopes for new york racing is that they ; don\'t basically erase an institutional memory of racing at the executive level of racing mngmnt and ;  don\'t ignore the one problem with medication and screw up the other with track surfaces . but i don\'t see that happening here unless temperance suddenly becomes an undervaluded commodity in this state .

just for conversation sake , imo nyra has done as good as realistically can be expected under the circumstances and  a good job appears to have been done with the winter racing surface at aqueduct - and they don\'t seem to be afraid to cancell a race card due to inclement weather or dicey conditions which i belive would have moderated some of the downside of the newly installed racing surfaces that woodbine and turfway are experiencing   .

[bobphilo]

Clown, when you showed your lack of knowledge about synthetic surfaces by saying the that it was only used for summer racing in England, when in fact it was designed for and has been used with great success as an all-weather track in English winter racing, it looked like you were going to wisely lay low. Now you're back with more twisted arguments that try to prove the very opposite of what is true. If there is any similarity between people with views on the Iraq war and those with views on Polytrack it its exactly opposite to what you claim. I see a better parallel between those that care nothing about the deaths and injuries in the current war but cling to the traditional conservative philosophy of staying the course as usual, in the face of all the studies and reports that say we badly need to change our policies there, and those that are indifferent to all the lives saved by Polytrack because they prefer to cling to their old conservative loyalty to the outdated dirt tracks in the face of all the studies that show the synthetic surfaces are safer. Your insensitivity regarding individual horses like Lost in the Fog and Barbaro has just been out-done with your lack of concern for all the horses that could be saved with the replacement over old dirt tracks with Poly. Worse of all to try to link those that want to improve conditions for both horses and riders with the bushoviks fascists when it is the opposers of the new surface that better fit that description. This shows you to be seriously confused as well as uncaring. Get a clue, and try some psychiatric help while you're at it.

Bob

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

bob, I read the first line of your essay and stopped reading. It was all I needed to read.

I seriously can\'t believe any individual could be a regular visitor to this site and still not comprehend the immense importance of the ancient elements to the sport of Horseracing and that despite being involved here still be devoid of any inclination whatsoever regarding their application in weather impacted areas of this country. It seriously boggles the mind, but the upside is you get to compete against those type at the windows.

I stand firmly behind my position that like Iraq, Polytrack is an experiment. The only part of the scientific method employed were observations and a hypothesis. There was no clinical study. There was no test group. There were no test results to derive a theory. There wasn\'t even any relevant local evidence. There was no rational thought.

I could tell you the precise basis why. I could itemize the specific problems that have arisen and will arise with that nonsense, but I don\'t work like that. Those things are for some to know and others to try and find out, if they are curious enough, but many want to view the world through the Rose Colored Glasses. I\'ve said enough, but without divulging the detail, I have my own scientific theory based hypothesis that I will share: \"Within a decade Polynonsense will no longer be the surface at Turfway Park.\" You may extrapolate from there.

I hope I do as well in this years Preakness as last. That was a scientific theory based wager as well and I\'m proud of it. And my guess is thats the root of your recalcitrance.

What follows below is from another careful thinker:

Roger Stein
SoCal-based trainer
Host, The Roger Stein Show

I began training thoroughbred racehorses in 1987, after 10 successful years in the standardbred industry. I can honestly say, after 30 years in the horse business, I have never seen an industry-wide movement such as the one surrounding track surfaces. It really made me wonder if it was me who could no longer could consider himself \"in the loop\".

What was so wrong with nature\'s surfaces? After more than 100 years of horseracing, the people who make the decisions in our beloved game have decided that an immediate \"switch\" in the surfaces that we run on has become necessary? What am I missing? Are we losing horseplayers because of the composition of our main tracks? Are the horses careers being shortened because of the horrendous track conditions? Have we studied this phenomenon for a decade to make this extraordinary movement a sound and prudent decision?

If they had asked me, which no one has, maybe I would be in agreement that at some tracks, because of weather conditions and such, it might be wise to consider a \"synthetic option\", but certainly not the entire inventory of U.S. racetracks!

I am all for improvement in our industry, but not of the \"microwave\" decisions being made. Why not put in a synthetic track or two, in varying climates around the country, and study the results of such an experiment? Why not let the decision for so much change, be a sound scientific one... Or does that make too much sense?

I\'m afraid we are now getting to the heart of the problem. Our horses, and maybe sometimes the monetary handle, will pay a significant price until we \"tweak\" these brand new experimental surfaces. One thing is clear for sure -- these synthetic surfaces are not the \"panacea\" for horseracing\'s woes, as some thought they would be.

Let\'s move forward and make continued progress so that the industry doesn\'t fall too far \"behind the times\", but let\'s be prudent the next time we address any similar \"conceived by some\" problems.

bob, I included the above comments of Roger Stein in the event you wanted to advise him to lay low too. I suspect what follows is what really bugs you and its included for context. (Warning to Barbaro Lovers, its my earnest belief that the world of horseracing is better off without the genetic influence of Barbaro. Don\'t read the following links if that offends you.)

http://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,29113,29113#msg-29113

http://www.thorograph.com/phorum/read.php?1,29169,29169#msg-29169