Barbaro connections better candidates for Eclipse's than usual suspects.

[bobphilo]

Beyer makes a good point in this article. Sentiment aside, Bernardini deserves the 3Y0 honors over Barbaro but his connections should be considered for Eclipse awards.
With his huge stable and rich clients Pletcher leads the country in purses won, but his drug convictions make every one of them suspect. In the races that count he's 0 for 37 with his Triple Crown nominees and 0 for 17 with his Breeder's Cup entries. Compare this with Michaels Matz's Derby win with his only entry as well as his BC distaff win with Round Pond. Is there any question who is the better trainer and who is the cheater?  

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=81126&subs=0&arc=0

Bob

[miff]

Hi Bob,

Wouldn\'t Pletchers less than stellar results on big days 0 for 37(considering his massive high class stable) indicate that he is not a cheat? I would be careful to judge guys by nanogram contaminations or between race legal stuff that did not clear.Shakes,blood dope and super pain meds are the real move up drugs.

If you study the TG figs for most of Pletchers runners, it does not appear to add up to drugs.Pletchers horses burst on the scene from the 2yr training sales, run big and then mostly show very little development.Now lets say you look at horses taken over for the first time by say Rick Dutrow(to name one), you will see gigantic move ups regardless of who the previous trainer was.

Pletcher has 200 horses and most have big breeding or fast training sale splits. I think any good trainer could get the same results as TAP with the same stock without using illegal stuff.

Mike

[Ill-bred]

While managing a GIANT stable, Pletcher won 25% of his races this year. I\'m not sure it\'s fair to say any good trainer could do that. How many have?

[miff]

Ill Bred,

Off the top of my head to name a few:

A. Dutrow

R.Dutrow

B.Levine

K.Ziadie

T.Amoss

I believe there are many more who win at app 25% with less than 1/10 of the stock that TAP has, however these guys are far more suspect.

What % do you think TAP would win at if he trained John Candlins horses? I think TAP is the top CEO type trainer in all of racing, not the best horseman.


Mike

[bobphilo]

Hi Mike,

When a trainer significantly underperforms relative to his previous record in big races like the BC where there is tighter scrutiny, that is actually a cause of suspicion.
In any case, I was not using Plecther\'s BC record as evidence of his cheating – his own convictions already do that. My point that is that his record in the races that count the most does not support an Eclipse award, especially when someone like Matz has a better record in these races.
As far as his repeat drug positives. Many people think that nanogram means an "insignificantly small amount of a substance". Not so. Many drugs have short half-lives and only traces of them or their metabolites are found in the blood and urine so one needs sensitivity to the nanogram level to detect their use at all. That does not mean that there was an insignificant amount of the substance in the horse when he raced. Furthermore, many drugs are illegal in any concentration, so if any amount shows up, the trainer cheated – period. There certain substances like, CO2, that the horse produces naturally and these must be found in concentrations several standard deviations above normal levels before we know there was something fishy going on. That was not the case with Pletcher's conviction. His horse was found to have something he shouldn't have any amount of, so the concentration was irrelevant to his guilt.
As for him having given it to the horse well before race time and it not clearing, Pletcher makes no such claim in his appeal. Instead he insults the intelligence of the court and everyone else by claiming the horse 'must have picked it up from the breath of another horse stabled nearby". Just how stupid does he think people are? Fortunately the court didn't buy that absurd excuse in turning down his appeal.
The fact that there may be others using stronger stuff is irrelevant to Pletcher's guilt. If we do not punish the people we can catch using the banned stuff we know about, we set a tone of laxity for enforcement of any banned substance use.
Given the evidence, to consider someone like Pletcher for an Eclipse award is ludicrous. Give it to Matz.  

Bob

[Ill-bred]

Miff-

I was trying to make the point that is hard to win with 25% when you have such a big diverse stable. IMHO, it\'s easier to win at 25% when your numbers are smaller.

[bobphilo]

Mike,

Just one additional detail regarding the Pletcher suspension. The drug his horse tested positive for was Mepivacaine; a potent anesthetic classified as a Class 2 drug, meaning it has a "high potential to affect performance".

Isn't that what you were describing when you talked about trainers moving up horses with painkillers?

I know you to be a very concerned guy with suspect trainers - I just think you should add Pletcher to your list.

Bob

[miff]

Bob,

Surely you are aware that most outfits use meds BETWEEN starts that are prohibited in a horses system on race day.If not the entry boxes would be half full.There is a substantial difference between maintenance purpose vs use to blantantly cheat. It is difficult to distinguish between the two uses and no one has ever won an appeal on a challenged violation.Didn\'t some US trainer recently get \"stuck up\" in Dubai for 700K on a positive technicality?

The rules on trainer responsibility are very clear yet sometimes unfair when common sense is brought into the picture.Lucas, Baffert, Zito, Pletcher and a few others have ridiculous positives on their record.They may be the biggest cheats in racing but look into certain of their violations if you would like a good laugh.

Mike

[SJU5]

 Instead he insults the intelligence of the court and everyone else by claiming the horse 'must have picked it up from the breath of another horse stabled nearby". Just how stupid does he think people are? Fortunately the court didn't buy that absurd excuse in turning down his appeal.

Did he REALLY use that as his excuse in court?  That is one of the all time lamest excuses.

[bobphilo]

Mike,

I understand what your saying but Pletcher himself is not claiming that he gave the drug between races. He is adament that he NEVER gave the drug, which makes him a liar as well as a cheat. His absurd claim that the horse must have inhaled it from another horse is grasping at straws in an attempt to save his ass.
 
It reminds me of the story of the guy on trial for killing someone with a knife. He said, \"Your honor, I was just standing there with the knife in my hand when the this guy runs around the corner into my knife - 23 times. Pletcher\'s defense is just as lame.

Yes Dutrow, Asmussan and Mullins have gotten away with murder by officials who don\'t have the stones to stand up to them. Pletcher is one of them and and defending him when he is so obviously guilty only makes things worse.
These guys don\'t even deserve to be allowed to muck out a racehorse\'s stall, let alone be given Eclipse awards.

Bob  

[bobphilo]

Yes he did, right after he said that it is unfair to hold a trainer responsible for what is injected into his horse. Who the hell is responsible then?

It ranks right up there with Asmussan\'s claim at his hearing that he did not order the drug his horse tested positive for - he said he had ordered 2 other illegal drugs and the vet screwed it up. If this wasn\'t so tragic it would be funny.

Bob

[shanahan]

seems like this thread has gone off course...barbaro\'s connections should be candidates...simple enough?

[bobphilo]

As that was the the whole point of this thread when I began it , I agree, despite all attempts to argue that Pletcher is more deserving of the Eclipse than Matz. That and the fact that the Jacksons deserve consideration for breeder/owner honors.  

Bob