Wiseguy Horse

[TGJB]

Well, by definition the wiseguy horse can\'t be a favorite, and it\'s seldom an extreme longshot. So far this year I\'m hearing 3 names-- A. P. Warrior, Sinister Minister, Sweetnorthernsaint.

Started work for the seminar, lots to think and talk about. Important to handicap it like the Derby, but bet it like it\'s just another race-- don\'t get hung up on cashing or picking the winner, try to make a productive play.

[congaree1]

Regardless if you cash or blow, the Derby is a very difficult race to handicap.
 Twenty horses running a 1 1/4 for the first time, at such a young age. Amazing to me is, the horses that never make it back to the races period.

  Some horses regardless off how fast will not do well, because they just can\'t run that far, (Peace Rules) was as fast as Empire maker, got a much better trip but couldn\'t hang on. Congaree, Indian Charlie are just a couple that come to mind. This year, plenty of them have good fast lines,but will not perform because of the Derby hustle. Who are the worst wiseguy horses ever?

Here are mine: Saarland and Dollar Bill  

[Uncle Buck]

Other Wiseguy nags (in west coast degenerate circles):

Borrego
The Deputy
Hello (broke down)
Ten Most Wanted
Tapit

[congaree1]

I agree with all but The Deputy, he was one of the fav\'s going in. Then he vanished from earth.

[richiebee]

Does the Wise Guy horse ever win? How likely is he to top or pair?

[TGJB]

I think War Emblem and Funny Cide might qualify as wiseguy horses, maybe others.

[Silver Charm]

Silver Charm

[JJP]

Peace Rules may have been faster from the gate than Empire Maker but I\'m sure Frankel would tell you that Peace Rules was no Empire Maker.  That conveyor belt in the Blue Grass carried him to a win.  And it was severe that day.

As for bad wiseguy horses, I\'d have to put Vicar in there.  

[congaree1]

Yes, he was faster from the gate. The point was he had the same figs going into the Derby, a pair of 0\'s. But even with his dream trip he still couldn\'t win, because he couldn\'t get the 1 1/4 that young.

[Silver Charm]

Anything Pat Day rode for about a 20 year period.

Nothing against Pat but he probably had more Friday favorites than anybody.

[TGJB]

You guys want to be careful about your cause and effect relationships, with Peace Rules and everybody else. There\'s areason we put them on a graph.

[miff]

The wise guy horses I have heard the most is Sweetnorthernsaint and  Point Determined who Baffy talks down but supposedly likes the most for the derby.

[Uncle Buck]

How could SNS be a wise guy horse off his pp\'s? If you watched him in the maiden race Jan. 7th at Acqueduct, he crushed with his giant strides. He did it again in the Miracle Wood. He ran kind of goofy in the Gotham first time under Kent D, but then returned to his normal mode and thumped \'em in Illinois. This horse is second fastest to Bro Derek on TG figs and is lights out in my book. I love him. He runs like a real special horse - one of the best I\'ve seen in 25 years of playing around with these animals. I think he wins May 6th fairly easily.

The Wise Guy horses are always plodders who need that extra furlong to really shine come Derby Day. Atswhati\'mtalkinabout comes to mind. All deep closers that never seem to get there...

One wise guy horse that was very hush hush from what I can recall was Invisible Ink, who ran second to Monarchos in 2001. He went off at 50-1 and was a very nice choice to fill in the exotics...

[jimbo66]

Uncle Buck,

Take a second look at your T-Graph figs.  SNS is not second fastest to Brother Derek.  He is faster than Brother Derek.

He is a distant second fastest, but to Sinister Minister.  

[miff]

Buck,

Remember, SNS will need to win from off the lead, which he has never done.He\'s not quick enough to outrun several in here from the gate.I agree a few suck up one paced types getting lots of ink.