Weirdness

[SoCalMan2]

Just out of curiosity, why does the sheet for Tropical Star (IRE) reflect him (if I can use that pronoun) being gelded three consecutive times?  Seems a bit weird.  Also, anybody know how you pronounce this (or its) Jockey\'s name?  Is FFrench pronounced \"Fuh - French\" or is the first \"F\" (or maybe second \"F\"?) silent?

[sighthound]

Gelded three consecutive times ?

-  Shopping for a new veterinary surgeon, decided to compare techniques between several ...
-  Couldn\'t find the retained abdominal one the first two times ...
-  The health insurance policy was expiring, and just wanted to get their money\'s worth out of it ...
-  This is simply a horse for the record books.

[elkurzhal]

Someting seems a little weird with some of the Eruo numbers too.  Gaff and Wilko seem to have duplicate races a week or so apart, the second of which has no fig.

[Upper Nile]

And Gold for Sale won all 6 of his races by exactly the same margin of 1/2 length.  Simpatico Bribon won his last 7 races by exactly the same margin of 6 lengths!  This happens with the data on a fairly regular basis with euro and South American horses.  I\'ve brought this up in the past and TG has said the reason is \"this is the data that came from Equibase\".  

Folks, it is possible to take a look and fix the errors or delete the incorrect data before you sell the data.

[Upper Nile]

How is it that DRF has accurate beaten lengths in the running lines and TG does not?

[TGAB]

Here\'s the problem. Equibase, our data source provider, switched over to a new file format in the first week of the new year. One of the disadvantages we find is the procedure for amending, updating European race results. The procedure calls for deleting the entire record on file and resending the complete updated new record. Prior to the new year, only the amended variables were resent; the entire record was not deleted, only the changed value. That\'s the way US results are updated and have been for a while, no change in the new year.

How does the procedure change manifest itself? Well, your seeing some of manifestations---the multiple gelding notations, duplicate races.

To be fair it should be said that Equibase is responsible for the accuracy of US race results, not European results. But as the major US race database provider, they do gather European race results and provide them to customers. That involves getting results from many different foreign organizations over which they have no control. Their primary purpose is make sure that foreign result data are as complete as possible for foreign runners that show up in the US.

Remember you are looking at a Dubai card, not a US race card. Also it should be noted that race and horse information records are voluminous. There\'s a lot of information you don\'t see, we don\'t use. For instance, internal call data, earnings, complete races, records, ownership, riding colors, etc. Any time one of these change for a foreign race we already have stored, the entire record is zapped and replaced.

The problems come because once upon a time we tried gather and code gelding information. Obviously this is a major change to a colt or horse\'s physical being which often has imminent repercussions. The Jockey Club gathers and reports this info but there\'s no timely notification process which makes the reporting of it haphazard at best. For this reason we abandoned the effort and purposely chose not to denote it on the sheets, except in the breeding line atop the sheet. We stored the record and chose not to pick subsequent changes except as noted above. However with European records now, whatever we have in the database gets zapped and resent everytime the horse appears. So I spent a good deal of time yesterday going over each horse and looking for erroneous or multiple gelding codes and zapping them horse by horse. In addition we were also appending omitted past performances and TG figures for these performances as well. It was time consuming and a lot of work but necessary to get out the card. I obviously missed a horse or two but believe me there were a lot more castration notices.

Now the duplicate races. You\'ve probably noticed a lot more duplicates races, boxes, since the new year started. A long time ago we realized the problems inherent with foreign data. We had our programmer develop software to allow us to append race information omitted. So we took whatever Equibase had, added omissions, appended figures, and fixed the multiple codings. Once stored, prior to this year, we only updated relevant variables. When horses showed up again, we only had to check subsequent information. Not so this year with data format change. In addition to the procedure change, Equibase decided to code foreign race numbers differently with three, four and five number designations. These designations never match with what we have, like 1,2, 3 etc., so they always get added. Hence we have duplicates. I tried to get rid of all of those as well but obvious was unsuccessful and frankly on some days when I\'m pressed for time, I don\'t bother deleting the duplicates, the figure takes priority to the cosmetic changes although I do realize the duplicate boxes are annoying and can be confusing. Bear with us we\'ve put this on the list for the programmer to fix, but it hasn\'t been done as yet.

It\'s bad for us inhouse as well. Frankly, if the procedure hadn\'t changed, we\'d
could get rid of the boxes, gelding listings one time and that would be it. Also now if we enter a figure for new foreign race record, it will get zapped once it shows up again, unless we manually enter and join the result to the figure which would result in a duplicate listing since we have no idea of the race number designation scheme Equibase uses. Believe me this is a problem and we will fix it in the near future.              

For some races we are not able to make a figure. The figures we do show do not include ground loss information but we think, they\'re pretty accurate, regardless.

Now you know some of the back room doings and problems we face dealing with foreign horses and presenting data for foreign races.

Go Super Frolic.

Just saw the question concerning the race summary discrepancies. A few points here. One, the DRF has more resources at hand to gather, report, and ensure the accuracy of foreign race data and the guy they got in charge there is good at what he does. Two, and this is speculative, but they either didn\'t face or have  overcome some of the data problems we confront now. Three, and this is most important, focus. Our focus is making the figure and if we show a figure for a race that figure reflects accurate inputs of race result data. I realize that point is subject to question when the race summary is incorrect but I assure you, a Thoro-Graph figure reflects accurate inputs. Often we don\'t see the race summaries until they\'re printed out and it takes too much time to fix them and if we do we run into the problems detailed above. The DRF shows running lines with a comment and that\'s their main focus. Not so with us. The figure is the main focus and we use accurate source materials to ensure the accuracy of the figure we make to the fullest extent possible. You can get running lines from various sources which is why race summary accuracy is a lower priority. And by the way you won\'t see these inaccuracies with domestic data.                
   

       

[RICH]

Speaking of super frolic, how do the boys in the office feel about him. If he runs back to his number, he looks ok. What are you feeling there?

Rich

[TGAB]

That\'s our feeling. He looks to have a good shot.

[tmon]

If you want current info of running lines for horses in GB go to
http://www.racingpost.co.uk/news/home.sd
and do a database search on the horse.
No registration needed for the racing information only for anything else registration is required.

[davidrex]

     EQUI-BASE doesn\'t belong in the same room w/your #\'s

pertinent info(ex. % of wins by trainer 1st off maiden win) is what is needed,not the sophmoric stats \"equi-baseless\" puts out.

of courese ,since I\'m already relishing in the glow of using numerous pages of stats...well what the hell....I\'ll just shut my mouth and dream about a super sheet that is not only accurate(not ass hanicapper dribble) but truly a time saving device.

There its\' zzzzipped.

qed

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

TGAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That\'s our feeling. He looks to have a good shot.
>
> TGAB

My impression is that he still hasn\'t fired his A race for Ro Parra.

The Pacific Classic he was much too close to a very hot pace and faded marginally to be beaten five lengths.

The Hawthorne Gold Cup he was definitely losing footing in the goo.

The B.C. Classic that break cost him as many lengths + as he lost by.

The Donn surface took the race from more than Super Frolic.

I can\'t factor the euro horses, but to my eye Super Frolic has one horse to be concerned about and that is Brass Hat.

CtC

[bobphilo]

I think Super Frolic and Brass Hat are top contenders here. It\'s always dicey comparing Timeform ratings and TG and Beyers but I think Electrocutionist looks tough here as well. He\'s been awesome in all his European races with his only off race being in the Canadian International on a yielding course and being hit in the face with a whip after a wide trip. He blew away the field at this exact distance on this very course in his dirt debut earninmg a 127 and could be a monster on this surface. I\'d have to go with him. Besides, I\'m Italian, so it\'s almost a mandatory bet. LOL. The Japanese horse also has impressive credentials, though his competition may be a question mark, but should love the long Nad al Sheba stretch and may also be a factor. Should be a very interesting race. Good luck to all who bet it.

Bob

[ROBERT49]

what tracks/simulcasts are taking the dubai bets? choctaw looks ready to me.

[bobphilo]

I bet with Brisbet and I know they\'re taking it. I\'m sure all the major ones are as well. NY OTB will probably cover the live simulcast early in the A.M., as usual. and It will be on network TV for the first time on ABC on tape delay in the afternoon. Check local listings, as they say.

Bob

[TGAB]

CTC--I love to tell you Super Frolic hasn\'t run his best yet, that he has another move in him. I suppose it\'s possible but I\'m more inclined to think not. I think he did run a A race winning the Hawthorne Gold Cup. It was only 0-1/4 off his top. What I hope Super Frolic does is run his top more consistently. And actually looking at his line, Super Frolic ran within 0-1/2 point of his top 4 of 8 times last year. So maybe he does have more in him.

That said as for his chances in the World Cup, Brass Hat is obviously the horse to beat. But he ran a stratospheric figure last out and has to be vulnerable to a bounce. Electrocutionist is fast but not as fast as Super Frolic and he too enters off a 2 point new top coming back on relatively short rest. Super Frolic is reportedly training and doing well and I know nothing more along that line. He didn\'t handle the slop on Donn day but a lot of horses didn\'t fire, so he enters rested having not run a big effort for some 5 months or so. Should have his energy tanks full. After looking at the sheets, the horse I worry about is Kane Hekili who is slower and also off 1-1/4 point new top, but this guy has never bounced as far as we know and as a 4yo is still growing and developing. In my opinion, this guy definitely has another move in him, and perhaps two. At the morning line I see, I\'d bet Super Frolic to win and box with Kane Hekili.

Go Super Frolic.