Jerry

[Ron G.]

What about no betting on the races there, that\'s got to be more important.

[NoCarolinaTony]

Ohh the UAE are those \"BAD\" Arabs who\'s companies we cannot let run our port\'s. But we can run our horses for the money. Oh we are such a sophisticated and arrogant country that we cannot distinguish one ARAB from another and we lump them all together.

When you have Dems acting like republicans and Republicans acting like democrats this country is ready for a tailspin of proportions we have not seen since the McCarthy era.

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

I hear you EG,

Actually I was lucky to see both the Gotham and Rebel on the local NYC OTB channel but a lot of the members in my Yahoo group don\'t get the OTB channels where they live. HRTV is only available on DISH which does not get a good reception in my area. I can get TVG on cable but I hate to pay extra for something that I should be getting with what I already pay for ESPN. I can also get the races live on my PC through my Brisbet account but I can\'t tape them for the replay that is essential for the trip and pace analysis I do for my Yahoo racing group.
 I was pleaseantly surprised that that this time, inlike the Sunshine Millions, they did show all 4 races.
I guess what got to me the most is that they cut 2/3 rd\'s of the racing so that the college wrestling could start on time and didn\'t cut a minute from that. That bothered me altough I was a college wrestler myself. It just shows the low regard racing is held in.

Bob

[bobphilo]

Horseracing is actually the # one sport in this country in spectator attendance. That\'s right, more than Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, etc. it\'s only second to Soccer wordwide. The problem is the networks think the demogrphics of racing fans are all a bunch of old degenerates and a less lucrative market for what they try to sell in commercials.
To rank it below college wrestling in popularity, however, is really underestimating it. When I wrestled in college, half the school didn\'t even know we had a wrestling team and they had to gave away the tickets to the matches. Except for a few schools where wrestling is big, like Lehigh, Kansas and Oklahoma, the wrestling team is the first one cut when they trim the budget. Most people don\'t even know the difference between it and the absurd farce of TY professional wrestling.

Bob

[NoCarolinaTony]

Bob,

It may be right in total, but if you divide the total # of events (total attendance divided by racing days x the number of race tracks, the average attendance is below whale dung (on the bottom of the ocean). Put that avg attendance per event against any other sport and you know what I mean. Now college wrestling may not beat Horse racing, but it\'s sponsers may pay better than HR sponsers.

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

Tony, We\'re coming dangengerously close to agreeing again. LOL. The network basically see\'s races goers as either a bunch of greedy old bettors that will never organize because they\'d rather look at for number 1, or a bunch of naive young kids who have no clue as to what\'s really going on in the sport. The latter group will just take anything you give them (total opposite of my generation in the 60\'s) and the older betters will grumble and bitch but never get together. Demographically our power is nill despite our superior numbers.

Bob

[P-Dub]

I think a lot of people are overly sensitive on this subject.

The main point of the telecast was watching the races.  So you didn\'t see a feature on a horse, jockey, trainer, etc... Did they show all 4 races?? If so, whats the problem??  If the SA race was delayed for whatever reason and started after 4:30pm, they would have shown the race and started the wrestling late.

It gets a little tiresome hearing all of the whining because a racing telecast gets cut short. These races are ALWAYS shown on the various replay shows during the week, notably the Inside Racing show on FSN.  They show complete wire to wire coverage of the major races from the weekend. So, why is everyone still complaining?? Because you didn\'t see another feature on Baffert?? Get over it already.

Racing isn\'t the only show that gets cut short. Tennis routinely runs over and cuts into other programming. The NHL playoffs went OT often and would cut into other shows.  There are copuntless other examples of shows being pre-empted due to a sporting event going long. Thats just the way it works.

[bobphilo]

The problem was that based on past performances from the Sunshine Millions, where all the racers were not shown, there was no reason to believe they would not do the same this time. There was no statement that the races would be shown in their entirety. They also made it clear that college wrestling was going to start at 7:30 sharp, whether the races were over or not. I\'ve never seen any other sport delayed to complete a racing show. Couldn\'t the wrestling show display some of the same courtesy to racing that racing displayed to baseball? They could have easily shown higlights of some of the many matches if necessary but didn\'t even consider it.
They did end up showing all 4 races but never made it clear that they would all be shown until the last minute. True the Racing production team did a great job with what they had timewise, but you could tell from their remarks they were not very happy about the treatment they were getting.
Yes, there is a show that shows races on tape delay but by then everbody knows the winner and no other sports fan would tolerate a replay of a game they already knew the result of when they were promised it live.
I think some display of indignity is justified here.

Bob

[P-Dub]

bobphilo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, there is a show that shows races on tape
> delay but by then everbody knows the winner and no
> other sports fan would tolerate a replay of a game
> they already knew the result of when they were
> promised it live.
> I think some display of indignity is justified
> here.
>
> Bob


Bob,
Weren\'t a couple of the races shown on tape delay?? The Tampa Bay race and the Aqueduct race went off before the show was scheduled to start and were shown on tape. You probably didn\'t access web sites that would have told you who won those races before the show started. As for watching replay shows, if you really need to watch a race without knowing who won, don\'t read Sunday\'s paper and watch the show on Monday.

\"Couldn\'t the wrestling show display some of the same courtesy to racing that racing displayed to baseball? They could have easily shown higlights of some of the many matches if necessary but didn\'t even consider it.\"

I still don\'t get it.  All 4 races were shown.  What would you have liked included in the abbreviated coverage that wasn\'t shown?? I would think that the main reason people tuned in was for the races.

[SoCalMan2]

Do you guys remember back in the 70s when once a year the DRF would have a banner headline trumpeting that once again horseracing was America\'s most attended sport?  Anyway, I remember one year it was passed (I think car racing actually is what became number 1 relegating horseracing to number 2 (no pun intended)), and then the next year, the national attendance stats were not reported by the DRF at all and never have been since.

[richiebee]

SCM:

   Racetrack operators just haven\'t cared about attendance for the last couple of decades. It seems like Oaklawn, Keeneland and Saratoga are the only places where the \"gate\" is strong.

   NYRA over the past 10 years or so has done nothing to promote live attendance at their facilities. The attendance at Aqueduct and Belmont is now less than half that it was 10 years ago. NYRA, even prior to its current financial situation, is guilty of being totally unimaginative in advertising, promoting and cross- promoting the sport. The fact that there has been no progress with Aqu VLTs has to be costing the state, the track and horsemen millions per month.

   One of the NY papers criticized Diet Pepsi for building an ad campaign around poker. The article says that viewer numbers on the many TV poker shows have dropped dramatically, and that poker may be past its prime. Comments from the \"pokerazzi\"? Will the DRF poker article soon be replaced by a weekly NASCAR piece?

   SCM-- 2 Moscow comments.

   1) Is it a good sign for V Putin\'s \"capitalism without democracy\" that there are small casinos on the ground floors of a lot of apartment buildings?

   2) Amazing that the Hippodrome has been left to stand for 170 years throughout the many changes in government and leadership. The place easily could have been knocked down to make way for more of those 5 story walkup Kruschev class apartment buildings. I guess the fact that there was always a connection with the Russian Cavalry probably saved the facility.

[SoCalMan2]

Richiebee

You are an astute observer and picked up a lot on your trip here in Moscow.  I agree with you.  The true story about the casinos here is even worse than you imagine -- I would prefer not to go into it in writing but maybe one day we can discuss it over a pivo.  This government has zero regard for the little guy or for human life.  It is hard to believe, but Moscow has more casinos that any city in the world.  Within a quarter mile of my apartment there are at least 8 casinos (and three of them are major casinos) and I do not even live in the part of town with the most casinos. Also, whoever educated you on the history of the hippodrome educated you well.  I think the cavalry connection is in fact key.  Remember also that the hippodrome is not only a hippodrome, it is where all the muscovites go who want to ride.  Tons of normal people go there just to go out horseback riding.  Ironically, the biggest protector of the Hippodrome now is VVP himself who has designated horseracing as a sport deserving of attention.

SCM2

[bobphilo]

SCM,

I stand corrected regarding the racing ranking # 1 as a spectator sport. My data was a little out of date. I think that one of the clearest indicators that the tracks don\'t much care about attenedance is the new Gulfstream which cut it\'s seating capacity from thousands to a couple hundred. That and the nationwide attendeance drops says the tracks don\'t much care about putting butts in the seats anymore. A major error for the future, in my opinion. If my only exposure to racing as a kid had been simulcasting instead of seeing live horses run I probably wouldn\'t developed my lifelong interst in the sport that I was later able to translate to simulcasting and online betting.

Bob