Pissed at Crist

[richiebee]

In tomorrow\'s DRF, in a move which will make David Rex and others ecstatic, DRF announces that it will run a weekly POKER column. I guess this is a matter of if you can\'t beat em, join em.

That\'s really not why I\'m pissed at Crist. With all of the topics worth addressing in racing, like drugs, like overhyped overpriced stallion prospects making early exits, like the various problems encountering NYRA, Churchill and Magna, Steven Crist used his very widely read weekly column in the Form last Saturday to make the following points which none of us ever would have realized without him telling us:

  1) large fields increase handle, and

  2) horseplayers like large fields.

Duh. Look, Steven, if you don\'t want to address racing\'s more political issues, why don\'t you make a push for a $1 pick six wager, the way you advocated 10 cent superfectas? Or will the Pick 6 remain a \"rich get richer\" proposition, available mostly to those with deep pockets?

Sorry if I diverted any attention from Sir Isaac Newton.

[bobphilo]

Rich,

The reference to Newton was an analogy in relation to the discussion on figure making methododlogy, which I assume is relevant on this forum. You will be glad to know that Newton would probably have supported the $1 pick six and his countryman, philosopher John Stuart Mill, would definitely have championed the dime superfecta on egalitarian grounds.

Bob

[davidrex]

He was also one hell of a Hold-em player!

[MO]

It sucks that he charges you to read the DRF articles on line. Like his journalism is superior to anyone else\'s. Get a haircut.

[scavsiu8]

He only charges for certain articles(Columinists and handicapping),not the daily stuff.

[kev]

Doesn\'t equibase has the right to all horse racing data and the drf as well?? That\'s wild. Why did the drf sell out?

[Mall]

If he had taken an interest in racing, Newton would have been a unique, or very close to unique, participant, based on his response to praise that he had revolutionized peoples\' understanding of how the world worked, which was, in words or substance, assuming I\'m remembering correctly: \"If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of great men.\" It is very rare indeed for anyone in racing in any capacity to give anyone else very much in the way of genuine credit for the contributions which made what they are doing possible. The interesting question, of course, is why.        

[BitPlayer]

RB –

I didn\'t read the field size piece you\'re talking about.  (I won\'t pay for the \"Subscriber Only \" material online.   It\'s not worth the money to me.  I can understand why they charge for the handicapping pieces, but I\'ve never understood why they do so with the editorial pieces.  Don\'t they want them read as widely as possible?)

That said, I\'m a big fan of Crist\'s writing.  Way back when, I used to borrow the Sports section of the NY Times from someone down the hall to see if Crist had written an article that day.  I can tell from the titles of some of his editorial pieces that he doesn\'t duck the political issues.  He has certainly had a lot to say about NYRA.

With respect to field size, it may apparent to you and me that the industry should be pushing large fields, but the problem remains.  The tracks keep offering large purses for short fields.  The Woodward and Goodwood are two recent examples.  On the flip side, I know that jockeys have been resistant to increasing field size too much, and I can understand their position, especially with cheap horses that are more prone to break down mid-race.  The bottom line is that if the industry doesn\'t take steps to become viable in its own right, as opposed to relying on slots money, it won\'t last long.

On the $1 Pick-6, the big appeal of that bet (especially for tracks) is the possibility of a carryover.  Reducing the minimum bet would allow people to play more combinations, and reduce the chance of a carryover.

[richiebee]

Bit:

  I appreciate your well reasoned response, and you make some of the same field size observations that SC does, all of which are valid. And I would never call into question SC\'s ability as a writer or his willingness to point his quill at some of the tough issues.

  As to jockeys wanting shorter fields, I would hate to be flip with 2 recent fatalities among their ranks, but go into a jockeys room during a five horse race and ask the jocks who ARE NOT riding what they think of short fields.

  This is not the first time I\'ve made the PICK 6 comment, and I do it if anything to point out that Crist, handicapper/ columnist/ NYRA employee/publisher relishes most the role of Pick 6 guru/ maven (his book  Betting on Myself is a fun read)and might have a slight conflict of interest when it comes to letting some smaller players into the pool.

  Question for BOBPHILO (I\'m assuming no relation to Philo Kvetch): Bit points out that there would be less carryovers with $1 Pick 6s; does it mean that the pools would be twice as large when there WAS a carryover?

[bobphilo]

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>   Question for BOBPHILO (I\'m assuming no relation
> to Philo Kvetch): Bit points out that there would
> be less carryovers with $1 Pick 6s; does it mean
> that the pools would be twice as large when there
> WAS a carryover?

No, no relation to Philo Kvetch. I\'m glad someone remembers the old Soupy Sales show. LOL. Actually the philo is from my undegrad major, Philosophy.
Obviously, if there were less carryovers that would reduce the size of the next day\'s pools to that extent. Whether or not the next days pool would be twice as large would depend on the size of the carryover relative to the size of the next day\'s pool. That could vary considerably.

Bob

[bobphilo]

Mall,

That was a great quote by Newton but it\'s also true that he was notorious for his contemp for any kind of criticism directed at his work. He also engaged in a vicious defamatory battle with Leibniz regarding who had invented calculas.
After his nervous breakdown he devoted his later years to religious polemics.
He was undoubtably a great man who typified both the positve and negative aspects of modern racing. Believe it or not, this was not meant as a parallel with Jerry and Len. I meant it as an example of both the constructive and mean spirited discourse we see today.

Bob

[NoCarolinaTony]

Richie,

Not that you asked me, but I do agree with you that a $1 P6 would be a good thing for racing. For example, take a look at field size for BC  and the possible number of combinations. Even with all the money in the pool (even large syndicate money) the best they could come up with is 5 of 6. Large fields combined with the $1 P6 would be a winning combination in my opinion.

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

Rich,

Upon further reading of your question I think I may have missed your specific point. I think what you were really asking was, will the pool for a geven bet be twice as large if the minimum amount of that bet was twice as large? I think the answer to that is no, or at least not necessarily. If a bet costs twice as much I think people would be just as likely to just play fewer horses in their combinations than play the more expensive bet. Especially so in a pick 6, that is already more expensive to play due to all the combinations involved.
I quess what I\'m trying to say is that doubling the price of something will not automatically bring in twice the money. It could very well bring in less. That\'s why I\'m in favor of the $1 pick six.

Bob

[NoCarolinaTony]

Bob,



If you look at the $0.10 super pools at Keeneland plus I think in Tx, but particularly at Keeneland this year you will notice both increased pool size and large payouts as compared to previous years participation in that pool. You have quite a bit more speculative money in the pool then you would have had otherwise.

NC Tony

[bobphilo]

Tony,

Absolutely. I know from my own experience that the main reason I rarely play the Superfectas, and never play the Pic-6, is the cost of the tickets compared to other bets. I have to play considerably more combinations to keep it from being a lottery-like proposition. Like Robert Redford said when he played a professional gambler in the movie Havana, "I like to keep the gambling to a minimum.". With the dime Superfecta, I can afford to include enough horses to make it more of an investment. I'm sure that's why more people play it and the numbers were up when Keeneland offered it.

Bob