what's the ROTW?

Michael D. · March 31, 2005, 04:43:12 PM

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TGJB · March 31, 2005, 05:48:23 PM

Florida Derby is ROTW.

Michael D. · March 31, 2005, 06:18:50 PM

thanks..... very disappointed in the fla derby day card. i guess you can\'t blame GP though. looks like strangles caused some to run, and if bandini didn\'t get hurt, the fla derby still would have been the second best prep of \'05. they did a pretty good job filling some of these races, but the early ones leave very little betting opportunities....... can anyone beat zito?

NoCarolinaTony · March 31, 2005, 07:30:37 PM

Michael D.

The only thing you can blame them for is moving it to the date they did 5 weeks out from the Kentucky derby versus the traditional date. They blew that. The disease thats going around exaserbates the issue.

I hope they move it back to the traditional date next year.

NC Tony

gvido · March 31, 2005, 07:35:27 PM

Frank moved the date to keep the good horseman around for an extra month. The \'strangles\' outbreak has really hurt.

I\'m guessing the date will remain the same.

They\'ll really have to hustle to get anywhere close to last years handle numbers of $23 mill. The short fields don\'t help...

Post Edited (03-31-05 22:48)

NoCarolinaTony · March 31, 2005, 07:46:07 PM

GVIDO,

It is my understanding that 5 weeks between races is not the ideal scenario for conditioning. 3-4 weeks appears to be.

Nothing is in stone on that, but thats been my assessment. 5-6 weeks seems to leave them short for prime effort. perhaps JB\'s data base will have the answer.

NC Tony

Michael D. · March 31, 2005, 07:57:15 PM

na tony ....... if bandini didn\'t get hurt, this would have been clearly the second best prep of \'05. pletcher is on record saying that five weeks is the ideal window. read the t\'bred times article. pletcher goes on and on about how five weeks is perfect timing going into the derby. eight trainers seem to agree. watch next year. no strangles, and a bit more luck regarding injuries, and this will wind up being the ultimate kentucky derby prep. trust me.

Post Edited (03-31-05 22:58)

NoCarolinaTony · March 31, 2005, 08:31:24 PM

Ok Michael D, I do have good bit of respect for your opinion so I\'ll keep an open mind. I guess what is hard to assess, is that trainers will now have 4-5 races prior to derby vs 3-4. Maybe that\'s good for handicappers like us. Maybe not.

Time will tell I guess.

NC Tony

Bally Ache · April 01, 2005, 03:06:44 AM

In my opinion, Stronach has taken what used to be the single best meet of the year (including Saratoga) and done God knows what with it.

Moving the Fla. Derby was only one mistake. At least that\'s correctible and will be, if not next year, soon after.

What about the reconfiguration of the track. It seems now to be more of a speed track than ever. The 1 1/8 mile races are a joke. The stretch is too short. All these races at a flat mile for cheap horses?

And maybe the biggest mistake of all, no 1 1/16 mile races which give developing 3 yr. olds a chance to try two turns with less stress than 1 1/8. Both the FOY & Fla. Derby are now 1 1/8. Dumb, really dumb.

Oh, and don\'t forget the purses. How do they get away with running such small purses in the everyday races? I seldom bet GP anymore.

Ill-bred · April 01, 2005, 06:39:31 AM

I noticed Beyer must have split the variants for the Fla Derby card. Noble Causeway ran 6 lengths slower in the allowance 8th race than The Fla Derby went in the 11th.

Yet High Fly got a 99 and NC got a 96.

Interested to see if TG agrees.....

Frank · April 01, 2005, 07:14:31 AM

BA,

When was the last time Gulfstream was the best meet of the year? A long, long time ago is the answer.

Moving the Florida Derby was an excellent move. It provides a major final prep five weeks out for those trainers that believe three weeks from final prep to big dance is too short.

The move will also keep big barns in Florida a few weeks longer as soon as the bigger, slot fueled overnight purses kick in.

I read recently where they are lengthining the runup for the 1 1/8 mile races in the hope that the outside horses will have a better chance to win than they had at this meet.

I love the mile races. They are the fairest races run. Post position and running style should have less effect on the outcome given the long run to the only turn.

I\'m looking forward to great meets in the future. There will be more competitive purses, a new facility for the fans and improved simulcast areas. The horsemen seem to love the surface at GP as well as the one at the Palm Meadows training center. The new grass course is top notch, a huge improvement over the previous disaster of a course. The weather isn\'t too bad either.

Frank

mikemd · April 01, 2005, 07:33:15 AM

\"[Gulfstream] used to be the single best meet of the year (including Saratoga)\"

be careful, that limb is a little weak that you\'re on.

Bally Ache · April 01, 2005, 08:56:04 AM

I don\'t know how far back you guys go, but I remember Saratoga when it actually was what they try to pretend it is today.

First of all there used to be NO NY-bred races.

By the time the 2yr-olds got there they had established form and those races were much more bettable. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that 2yr.-old racing was the best part of the Sar meet. I know that sounds hard to believe because now it\'s all 1st or 2nd time starters.

Also, fewer turf races at about a mile & 3/8s for NW1 other than. To me, that\'s just a lottery and it\'s one facet that\'s easily correctible.

Basically, it was bigger fields & better horses.

April 01, 2005, 09:03:26 AM

I agree. As much as I love Saratoga, the quality has been diluted almost as fast as it has gotten more and more crowded. Not a good combo.

richiebee · April 01, 2005, 10:08:08 AM

Dont forget what Yogi Berra says:

\"Nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded\"

My opinion based on quality of racing:

1) Saratoga (NY breds produce full fields and wild betting races).

2) Del Mar (never been, so this one is on hearsay info)

3) Spring Keeneland

4) Fall Keeneland (weather can be dicey here)

5) Fall Belmont (3,4, and 5 photo finish) (move to 3 if you think there is too much 2YO
racing at Keeneland)

6) Gulfstream. Good job by Frank Stro with the surfaces. Nobody would miss the Sunshine Millions if it went away. How about hiring some good racing people and letting them keep their jobs for more than a few months? I think New York horsemen all want to be up North before April 1 given normal weather, so there is really not much Frank can do in April other than conduct Calder at Gulf racing. Entire stables are not going to alter their travel plans based on the positioning of one stakes race. Maybe he could run a series of big turf races in April to draw interest?

Post Edited (04-01-05 13:31)