Various

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Mall this link worked for me. Thanx

I\'m surmising you\'re looking for your brother. Best of Luck

CtC

[derby1592]

To TGJB: I will probably end up regretting this but I am stupid enough to give the ROTW a shot (if I can pick the race).

Just let me know how and when you want me to humble myself.

Chris

[sabowen]

I have no idea what ya\'ll are talking about. Wanted some input on RHT vs. Phipps horse in Strub. Thank you.



Post Edited (02-04-05 23:57)

[SoCalMan2]

Dear Mall,

The Ethel Mertz line on this board came about the following way (my memory may be off on a few details).  

1) I posted on this board noting that there were some unusual discrepancies between the figures of the two companies for the BC Cup races (particularly, the sprint and the distaff).

2) My post was met with a little bit of suspicion here and people were speculating as to who I might be.

3) In one of the post\'s, somebody asked if I was somebody named Marc.

4) I said I was not Marc (not knowing who Marc is or was).

5) On the other board, a person congratulated this Marc suggesting that he should be proud that I went out of my way to say I was not him and suggested that my disassociation was loaded with some meaning of one sort or another.

6) On this board, I responded that my denial of being Marc had nothing to do with Marc whoever that might be (and I am still unsure who this Marc is, but I do have a question later on regarding this). I explained that the genius on the other board high fiving with his co-horts had neglected to read my entire post.  Finally, to illustrate my point that I was not saying anything about this Marc who I did not know, I pointed out could also say I am not Ethel Mertz and it would be incorrect to draw any meaning regarding Ethel Mertz from such a denial.

7) I resurrected Ethel Mertz here because I thought it was funny and was playing with TGJB about saying I was a civilian (which Ethel Mertz would also presumeably be if she were alive and participating in these discussions).

That is the Ethel Mertz-on-the-sheetplaying-public-bulletin-board story.  

Now, I have a question for all the people who play inside baseball here.  Is the Marc I was accused of being the same Marc that had an episode with TGJB regarding people coming out of the woodwork and claiming credit for other people\'s triumphs with scant basis?  Recall, that Marc was congratulated by all the TGJB bashers for really rattling TGJB.  If it is the same guy, I wonder if this Marc can read sheets and thinks that Musique Toujuors was a good claim (AT THE TIME THE CLAIM DECISION WAS MADE) off the Ragozin Sheets. If this Marc is the guy who accuses people of jumping on bandwagons with little fair basis, then maybe he can explain why Musique Toujuours would not fit in this same category with the Ragozin Sheets claiming credit for the claim.  This is especially the case in light of the statements in various publications suggesting that people other than the alleged Sheet customer were responsible for the claim.  I have nothing against Ragozin, and I use their product.  I just think that for some reason, people give Ragozin a bye and jump all over TGJB unfairly.  

Also, I seem to recall somebody over on the other board asking me to point out areas where the two sheets come out differently. I think that looking at MT as a claim on November 20, 2003 is one very good example of where they really point in different directions.  (And both of these sheets are available for free on the internet now).  I will look for others and try to give one ahead of time before a race.

[SoCalMan2]

TGJB

Although the not-quite-as-evil-as-it-was-empire is in fact that, it is still pretty evil (they are just more aligned with us now). In any event, I did fly in this morning (not on BOAC and fortunately without a paper bag on my knee).  Ironically, that song is the favorite song of President Putin (when Paul McCartney had his Red Square concert in May 2003, McCartney opened with the song.  Putin arrived mid-concert.  As his encore, McCartney announced that he was doing a special request for a special audience member -- he then launched back into that opening number.  The irony here is overwhelming.)

Since I do not know who Mall is, it is hard to say whether we have been at the same place at the same time.  Chances are we were at some historic race at the same time.  Mall, were you at the Affirmed-Alydar Preakness?  One of the things that stick out in my mind from that day was actually a race on the undercard.  There was a horse called Aborigine I think.  He ran quite an impressive race that day -- to this day, the most electrifying move I have ever seen live in a horserace.  Anyway, I will make this offer to Mall and any other Sheet players out there (Ragozin or Thorograph) -- if you are in town (Moscow, Russia that is) and want to catch the few American Races available to bet here in town, beers are on me.

TGJB, I am honored by your offer and accept.  The only thing is, that sometimes my work can get a bit harried so we will need to work out a week that is manageable with my other workload.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

First off, SoCalMan2d you convinced me that you really are in the land of Onion Tops and Sables. But, I\'m pretty naive. The \"beers in Moscow\" part shakes me. I thought potato juice was the drink of choice there.

Regarding songs, that one has to rank very highly with the very best those lads ever did. It helped get them on the F.B.I.\'s list of suspected subversives. I\'m probably a bit more partial to \"Come Together\", \"Get Back\" and \"I am the Walrus\", but then I\'m more of a Stones fan.

Regarding you\'re occasional use of \"Sheets\", I have to ask, \"Why do you do that\"? Is it an availability issue? TGraph is wired. You presented a flawless numbers based analysis into the merits of a claimed horse. On your analysis you can plainly see the Sheet figures not only made no sense for the claim, they also stand contradictory to the overall pattern of improvement that landed Toujours the big slice in the Sun Millions Classic.

Lastly Great Nicks are borne of happenstance not planning. I don\'t see much planning in \"SoCalMan2\", (especially with a Moscow domicile, the bona fides of which become more tenuous with every sentence I write), regardless, what I want to suggest on this topic is \"Ethel Mertz\". Never in the history of TFig board posting has a nickname screamed out so vociferously to be borne. You have great standing here as \"SoCalMan2\", but as \"Ethel Mertz\" you could become legendary.

The original SoCalMan was the issue you see. You\'ve sold me on a separate identity upon your greater acumen and writing style. Your namesake couldn\'t think, but he was all over sounding smooth. Form over Substance you know. I haven\'t completely ruled out an eccentric ploy, but a horse at 70-1 is not a good bet if hes only got a 1% chance of winning. (Exotics excluded)

CtC



Post Edited (02-08-05 12:47)

[TGJB]

SoCal-- no, you are neither Mertz nor Marc, still not sure about Mall. Marc is Marc Attenberg, DRF employee (he runs their website), Ragozin acolyte, poster on several websites, and unremitting hypocrite (at best). Yes, if he wasn\'t full of crap he would have called the Ragozin office publicly on the MT business, for doing exactly what he was pretending to complain about.

So your thought process went, \"Civilian, hmmm... Ethel Mertz\". Is your real name Salvador Dali?

I thought about it, and I\'ve seen you at Saratoga, and Mall at Saratoga, but not at the same time, so I\'m still not sure. Maybe we can work that out for this year.

When you get time e-mail me about which week might work for doing ROTW-- we\'re also going to let Chris do one (Chris, I\'ll be getting to you later today about maybe doing it this week). Alan is very excited about the prospect of a week where he doesn\'t have to dodge pies.

[Mall]

I had drinks with some Aborigines once, but I don\'t remember the horse. That might be because of how vividly I remember the big race, no doubt because my seats were located near where Alydar briefly took the lead & I almost had a heart attack. You see, I was a student at the time, & on the 5 hr drive down I got the bright idea to book all of my classmates\' bets on Alydar.

If you haven\'t already, you might want to pick up a copy of Wink, which is about the jockey the NYRA named a MLK day stake after this year. He rode & won all of the big races in Moscow, where he was know as the \"black maestro\", & was forced by the Bolshevik army to make an 1100 mile march to Poland with 200 thoroughbreds.

I\'m already looking forward to your rotw. If you\'re amenable, authorize JB to share your email address with me, as there\'s something I can\'t mention here that I think you might be interested in.

[TGJB]

1100 miles, huh. Michael D is right-- they don\'t breed them to go long any more.

[Michael D.]

hahahah.....good one.

give us the heads up if chris does the ROTW

[TGJB]

It\'s his this week if he wants it. He can say anything he wants, as long as I agree with it. Sort of like Joe Lieberman\'s (and Falwell etc.) position on the First Amendment.

[Mall]

Very funny indeed. The Jimmy Winkfield story would be interesting to anyone who follows jockeys, but what you might find even more interesting are some stats from a Black History month tribute to his predecessor, Isaac Murphy. He won the 1st race he was in at age 14, three Ky Derbies, & over the 15 seasons he rode he won, gasp, 44% of his races. No roi info provided, but you have to believe that a super-jockey like that had a pretty strong following among the bettors.

What I\'ve been wanting to ask you about is the real inside skinny with Bailey. I read about but didn\'t hear the Super Bowl week interview promoting the book, so I obviously can\'t say whether he was hinting that he would retire after the TC. At the same time, the fact that he wrote a book & was doing interviews has to mean something. In run of the mill races, it sure doesn\'t seem like he\'s getting the mounts he used to get from a lot of different outfits, & I have an idea, a wag actually, that he & his agent may have already told his good clients his end date. Make sense?

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

It\'s his this week if he wants it. He can say anything he wants, as long as I agree with it. Sort of like Joe Lieberman\'s (and Falwell etc.) position on the First Amendment.

TGJB


lol



Post Edited (02-08-05 19:52)

[SoCalMan2]

Mall

Well, that confirms we were both at Pimlico on the third Saturday of May 1978!  Jerry, if you were there, you could have seen us both at the same time.  Besides Aborigine\'s electrfying move to seize that race on the undercard, I recall it being brutally hot. By the time the Affirmed-Alydar race came up, I was completely wiped.  This making me feel all nostalgic.  Those were the last days when betting tickets were those different colorful rolls that went through a special punch system.  Windows were denominated by the size and type of ticket they could sell.  I am sure they would never do it, but I would LOVE it if a track decided to do the racing equivalent of baseballs \"back to the 70s uniforms\" and decided to have a few of those machines on the big days for people who liked them.

I have heard about the Wink story but have not read the book.  FYI, I live and work walking distance from the Moscow Hippodrome.  The racing here is absolutely awful.  And, this is even after racing has gone through a huge resurgence because it is one of President Putin\'s favorite pastimes.  To give you a sample, the best stallion to ever stand in Russia was Leo Castelli.  It would be interesting to see the TGI Sire stats on old Leo.  I bet they are pretty pathetic.

CTC,

beer (in Russian \"pivo\") is very popular here, and, believe it or not, the Russian varieties are not bad.  Vodka is still the drink of choice here, but it defeats me.  Also, we call them onion domes, not onion tops.

FYI, I am also a big stones fan.  The only problem is that their reference to Russia is in SFTD and the reference is to St. Petersburg not Moscow.  Not a bad song though (with some pretty amazing lines).  I have always wondered if Mick is a racing fan.  There are some references to races in some obscure stones songs (Dead Flowers comes to mind off the top of my head); plus if \"Your so Vain\" is written about him, well, his horse naturally won!

As to why I still use Ragozin, I am an information maniac and like to get as much as possible.  I like to handicap races multiple times if I can. There are times where there are discrepancies between the two sheet makers, and sometimes this discrepancy works out in favor of the Ragozin sheet.  Quite frankly, I am looking for an edge that is not obvious to the crowd.  If I find a nice priced horse that I can find a good reason to bet, then great.  Using two sets of sheets gives me two different opportunities to find such a horse.  Also, I really like to be able to throw out favorites (or, occasionally, if I think they are unbeatable, I am willing to single them on top in the Super if I can fill out the ticket with some nice prices underneath). With two sets of sheets, if they do not agree a tough favorite is unbeatable, then I have more of a reason to throw out such a favorite (although it is far better if both sheets agree the horse is dead).  If both sheets agree a favorite is tough, then I need to look if I can find some value in a super (unless of course there is good enough value in the win pool).  

Also, (and I think Jerry would probably agree with me on the following) if you put aside issues of whether somebody has blown the ground or the beaten lengths or something like that, a key thing we are looking to figure makers for is the variant they embed in their numbers.  I think Jerry will agree that sometimes making a variant is a very tough call and there is no easy answer with what to come up with.  Sometimes he may get it right and sometimes he may get it wrong.  Some of the times he may have gotten it wrong, maybe Ragozin got it right.  The deal is that these sort of discrepancies may lead to a hidden virtue (or hidden weakness) in a horse. I am just trying to unlock such hidden stuff and having two bites at the apple gets me a second chance at that.

Also, and I am not busting on Thorograph here, but sometimes Thorograph makes mistakes, too.  There was the one mentioned on the site in NoCal where somebody subtracted a number that shoudl have been added.  Also, I have emailed Thorograph when I have seen a number I have purchased that is clearly wrong.  Also, I have noticed on rare occasion that their ground comment appears to be wrong (I am incredibly sensitive to needlessly wide rides from idiot jocks and ones that cost me money stick in my head.  I was shocked once to see such a bad ride get a 1w,1w later on -- Jerry, if you want me to point this one out to you I would be happy to off line).  Again, none of this is criticism, it just happens and I am very happy with Thorograph.


Finally, I will see if I can lock up the name Ethel Mertz. If somebody has beaten me to it, I may have to be something like EthelMertz2 or EthelMertz37.  As to the original SoCalMan....there is no mystery about him.  He is me.  I just lost the password and could not figure out how to get it back at the time I wanted to post something so I just made a SoCalMan2.  I used to live in Southern California (a 12 minute drive from Los Alamitos, and I am a big fan of Southern California racing (even though it has fallen on some tough times compared to the good old days).  

Enough of this, it is late and I need to go.

[TGJB]

SoCal-- Mistakes? MOI???

Yes, I definitely would like you to let me know about the horse with the 1w1w.