Here We Go -- Skippin' the Cup

[HP]

http://www.drf.com/bc/2004/classic/classic.html#story2

Training problem eh?  \"Just not himself,\" says Dutrow.  I am shocked.  HP

[beyerguy]

Its sad to say, but these were my first thoughts as well...\"Yeah, right, that\'s the reason...smirk, smirk!\"

[HP]

Usually I get upset when people start making allegations...but this article is incredible, especially after reading some of the posts here lately about guys who will skip the BC.  

There is nothing...wrong...with the horse...but he just...isn\'t right.  The article talks about how he \"didn\'t spike a fever\" or \"didn\'t miss an oat.\"  He doesn\'t say that the horse wouldn\'t be competitive or over his head, and he can\'t give ONE specific problem with the horse, and he spends time detailing the fact that the horse is in training and not suffering any soundness problem.  Sounds like a guy who\'s trying to have it both ways: he wants to bail on the BC (and the scrutiny there) without damaging the long term value of the horse or the public\'s perception of his abilities.

So after the BC, instead of having to talk about bad feet or a virus, he can just say, \"he didn\'t seem quite right but now he\'s ready to go!\" and make it seem like skipping the BC was \"just one of those things.\"  If Dutrow wants to use these quotes for the post-BC interviews I hope he\'ll pay my royalty fee.

HP

[jbelfior]

I propose we do something for these poor trainers who have horses that are\"not just right\" or may not want to take on tough horses at tracks they may not care for.

Let\'s run the \"TROPICANA STAKES\" at 6f on the undercard. We\'ll invite SIGHTSEEK, THUNDERELLO, SAINT LIAM, and SHAKE YOU DOWN.

Anyone else we should invite??


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[phil45]

Here\'s my question.  I have been under the opinion that NYRA was always one of the strictest places as far as regulating drug stuff.  

Obviously from the recent comments this is just not so.  

How did it come to pass that NYRA seems to suddenly be \"the wild west\" regarding enhancing performance?

[miff]

NYRA at Saratoga(aided by state troopers/investigators) is the toughest New York venue on juice guys for many years. Not so at Aqueduct and Belmont.

Anyone notice Labocetta Jr quietly has horses running lights out on and off for the past year or so.Maybe he\'s got the NUTRITION PROGRAM too.

[HP]

Actually I don\'t think the New York circuit is \"the wild West.\"  I think there are a few trainers on each circuit who are suspect.  I can\'t say NY is particularly bad.  

On a side note, whatever Scott Lake is pulling elsewhere, he ain\'t pulling it in New York.  It\'s been noted in other posts on this subject that these guys seem to be \"state specific\" in the sense that they restrict their voodoo geographically, and when they ship out of the voodoo zone, the hoodoo that they do declines.  

HP

[TGJB]

The problem has been that there either has been no way to catch these guys with drug testing, or that racing doesn\'t want the scandal (or expense) of catching them. What does work is suveillance/detention barns, which is why a lot of horses haven\'t run well at the BC (and I\'m not talking about winning, I\'m talking about running their numbers). Evidently the barn area at Saratoga is such that SOME guys can\'t do things they do elsewhere.

As far as the industry goes, the perfect solution is something that makes the problem go away without catching someone and causing a scandal. Prevention-- like 24 hour in advance detention barns across the board--  could end up being the way to go. Another thing could be listing a veternarian of record who is accountable, just as the trainer is. There are a couple of vets (and one in particular) who are doing the work for a lot of \"move-up\" trainers.

And you can add Peace Rules to that list. I predict many more will be added-- as happened last year.

[derby1592]

I heard it is very contagious in certain barns and that some more top horses are likely to catch it prior to the BC and that some that do compete in the BC may even display symptoms during the races because of increased susceptibility without their normal meds.

Chris

[kev]

I think you guys get a little carried away with all this drug talk. Seems like whoever gets hot at the time, he must be using something. Just like baseball players must be using the good Sh*t, to hit all those home runs. You all say certain trainers don\'t want to go to the big dance cause they might not get to use their good meds. So, you all are saying that Jeff M. or Cole N. or R. Dutrow and whoever else you all think are using, don\'t win the KY Derby or BC races cause theres too many people watching them right?? That\'s just silly maybe they don\'t have good enough horses to go. I wonder, were people saying this about Bob B. when he was on fire in the late 90\'s??? These horses that are dropping out, were they that good in the first place to win the BC races??? Ask your self that first before popping off.

[derby1592]

Kev,

You are correct in that we are casting a wide net and a lot of \"dolphins are probably getting caught in with the tuna\" but until racing cleans up its act, every good performance or successful performer will be under suspicion.

It\'s unfortunate but it\'s true.

The sad part is that most of the players are relatively \"clean\" and if they would pull together they could get it under control and level the playing field for everybody. The rumblings have started but there is still a long way to go.

Chris

[jimbo66]

It is a bit of a telling sign about the condition of the sport of horse racing, when a posting about who ISN\'T going to the BC and why generates 30 responses and tons of interest.  But a thread about who IS going generates almost none.........

[Catalin]

Anyone want to give me odds on Ghostzapper

a)  Showing Up
b)  Running a number within 3 points of his last two

Catalin

[sheba87]

Why wouldn\'t he show up?

He is going to be favorite or second favorite to win the richest race in North America.

[HP]

Kev,

The trainers you mention all have horses that are FAST ENOUGH to go. Why aren\'t they going? You don\'t find Dutrow statements on Saint Liam bizarre? Can you explain Frankel\'s dismal performance in the BCup nearly EVERY YEAR with horses that figure to win? It\'s just a coincidence that his horses flop on the big day? Where\'s Shuman/Gill with their horses that pop negative numbers all year long? Come on.

If it isn\'t drugs, what do you attribute it to? A seasonal thing that affects their barns EVERY YEAR? Sorry, but at least some of these guys are guilty and BCup does highlight the phenomenon.  HP