Lasix articles

[TGJB]

First one is mine, from a few years ago.

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/shared_content.cfm?id=934

Second one is Sid Ferrnando\'s. Note particularly the section that begins \"The chasm...\"

As for players wanting to \"clean up\" the game, that\'s the answer you give when faced with only a choice of either nothing being done about illegal drugs or ALL drugs being eliminated. Which is exactly why those with an agenda conflate Lasix with illegal drugs-- there is no case to be made against Lasix on its own.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/taking-stock-issues-with-the-integrity-act/

[Fairmount1]

JB (and others),

Three questions concerning Lasix as related to TGJB\'s comment that no case can be made against Lasix on its own.  

1. On its own, doesn\'t Lasix dehydrate horses in such a significant amount that it leads to less starts per year for all of these horses?  Leading to less starts, smaller field size, smaller handle, etc.


2. (Not on its own).  Isn\'t Lasix considered a masking agent for other [illegal] drugs?  


3. Byk and others love to make the distinction that Europe and others race on turf, not dirt, as an argument to keeping Lasix in place here.  Why not a consideration to only allow Lasix along the lines you proposed on dirt and eliminating it on turf altogether?  Everyone on here can likely recall the time that turf racing truly seemed more immune from suspicion than dirt.  Curious if this would return turf racing to this same situation as days gone by.

____________________

An interesting article from a while back predicting the future.  Interesting comments from Pletcher at the bottom among many other nuggets here.

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/how-would-us-racing-work-brave-new-drug-restricted-world/

[TGJB]

Okay.

First of all, correlation is not causation. If there is actual evidence that Lasix CAUSES unsoundness I would like to see it. There have been plenty of changes in racing over the years, including a far higher percentage of foals coming from commercial breeders, as opposed to those who breed to race, and have more of an interest in soundness. And racehorses are also much faster (see Archives this site), which places far more stress on bone and ligament. Are major league pitchers using Lasix? Because you ain\'t gonna be seeing anybody starting their career now win 300 games, let alone 511.

The \"masking agent\" thing was kicked around for a while, I haven\'t heard that one for at least 5 years.

Big picture-- even if it were true that Lasix use was against the welfare of the horses (all evidence is that exactly the opposite is true), welfare of the horses is not the only consideration. If it were we wouldn\'t race horses at all. The welfare of bettors, who will be facing increased randomness (remember synthetics?) and betting against more \"smart\" money based on inside information, is at stake. And ultimately, that means the welfare of the industry is as well.

And that\'s not just about the bettors. The economics for owners are bad enough already, and it is already hard enough to fill races. Owners will leave the game over this.

One more thing. As Curtis hinted at, anyone who thinks getting into bed with PETA will appease them is a fool. When that 1/5 shot bleeds because he didn\'t get Lasix they won\'t be screaming to allow him to get it. They will be screaming to ban racing.

As for the differences with American racing-- I can think of a couple of differences right away. First, the pace is almost always far hotter here than in Europe, they are stressed all the way, which is why they are almost always decelerating the last half of the race. Second, most tracks and training facilities here are in or near urban areas, air quality might be different.

[BB]

While I agree with Fairmount about Lasix/dehydration leading to fewer starts, one would also think that the associated weight loss would - if anything - reduce the stress of racing, not increase it.

Would also agree with your points re Europe (slow early / fast late) vs US (the opposite, turf excepted). That was probably the biggest reason why many bettors hated synth - it seemed to turn speed from an advantage to neutral/disadvantage.

I see many trainers note the \"urban\" distinction. Not sure how much of a factor that is, but since Euro horses don\'t live at racetracks, they generally get to \"be horses\" more than their American counterparts. I\'ll add that one of the recent big name converts to the WHOA group (Motion) operates mostly out of a Euro-style yard.

Here\'s another good read from today that touches on your point about the economics for owners.

https://www.pastthewire.com/the-end/

[P-Dub]

SA management should be listening to you, instead of whatever geniuses they are currently listening to.

[TGJB]

The biggest problem with this industry has always been and always will be the people who run it.

The Kentucky Breeders are on every effin board, and influence every major decision. They are NOT in the horse racing industry. They are in a separate industry that sells products to our industry, and their interests often do not align with ours. Having the breeders decide racing policy is like having Lockheed-Martin decide military policy.

[moosepalm]

It\'s possible to create a more dysfunctional system than thoroughbred horse racing, but it would take a considerable amount of work.  You have competing, and often poorly managed, tracks, state governments and the breeding industry, all stirring the pot.  That\'s a formula that would screw up a once-a-week church bingo night.  Brings to mind the phrase, \"We have met the enemy and he is us.\"

[Fairmount1]

What Lundy did to Calumet isn\'t even close to the national disaster the greedy hands of the horse racing industry have created for themselves.  I would never wish the federal government\'s oversight in any industry seeking to be more profitable or economically efficient.  But the horse racing industry is so FUBAR-ed, I\'ll take Uncle Sam\'s oversight over this garbage.  SA and GG will phase out Lasix but no change at GP and Laurel??  Every state has its own testing, med rules, labs via contract, and tracks have house rules??  

I have heard and read several solid debates by people on all sides of these issues.  People I respect on both sides of the Lasix issue.  The real issue is the greed of each and every hand is what led to this.  The most short sighted industry I\'ve ever seen.    

How this industry could screw this all up while the boring regular season sports like baseball, NFL, and NBA have thrived is beyond my understanding.  It is not b/c of sports gambling only.  Certainly competition has contributed but racing short sightedness got them here.  The others named all embraced television before racing, they all created a single governing body for one single league of the very best teams.  Racing not capable.  No one and I mean literally no one agrees or is on the same page whatsoever in racing.  

The NCAA is probably the most maligned and disliked sports organization in America.  You could argue a complete farce and hypocrisy.  But even they have a better model than horse racing.  The number of people I have met and read have reduced their handle by leaps and bounds from 7 figures to mere %\'s of that continues to grow.  It is b/c horse racing is an unorganized, untrustworthy, decaying product that is now under attack from mainstream media and as moosepalm suggests from themselves. Funny though, racing can\'t even look in the mirror to notice.  

Major, major UNIFORM change better occur FAST.  Uniform STRICT med rules/testing with or without Lasix and one governing body similar to MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, etc would be my vote for the Major League tracks that would join and work together at the top of the game (Think 1 track from NYRA, Cali, Ky, and Fla from Feb through BC working together towards Derby and BC with premium ontrack product).

_____________

March Madness starting this week.  8.5 billion expected to be bet with 1 in 5 people placing money of some sort on the event.  

Super Bowl handled an estimated 6 billion this year (95% est to be illegal).

Racing handled 11 billion in all of 2018.  

If you can\'t see where racing is headed, you, like the greedy hands cashing in now instead of looking long term, are Blind.  

Last, anyone that has met me knows I love the game as much as anyone so I want it to thrive but it simply will not as currently designed in America.  And there are no signs of long term national prosperity or change in the game that I can see to change the continued downward spiral.

[Boscar Obarra]

Maybe Jerry should be producing a Hong Kong product by now.  You know, get in front of the collapse.

  I\'m surprised he isn\'t already.

  How hard could it be ?

[Fairmount1]

An article written by a guy some of you from the Spa Backyard know I believe.  Chuck Simon.  

https://www.pastthewire.com/the-end/

[TGJB]

That’s a good one. Depressing, but good.

[Wire To Wire]

Any attempt to connect the use of Lasix to the problem with the racing surface is simply DEFLECTION on the part of Santa Anita management. These are two separate issues. No cause and effect relationship has ever been shown connecting Lasix use with breakdowns. The great majority of American trainers feel denying Lasix to bleeders is inhumane. The breakdown situation is 3-fold. 1- structural problems with the track; 2- unusual weather conditions; 3- pressure from racing secretary to fill races. Until they move the meet to Los Al and dig up the surface, I don’t feel there’s an end in sight.

[JimP]

Fairmount1, you are correct. But I will go one step farther and add that the sport of racing is already a deadman walking. It was once great. But resuscitation is no longer possible. I’ve participated in all aspects of the industry and that was one of the most enjoyable periods of my life. But that was long ago, and now I’m just a casual observer, mostly just watching the car wreck happen. It is no longer a great sport. I no longer participate because it is no longer attractive. The pervasive use of drugs, super-trainers at each track dominating the entry box for every race, and watching drastic odds changes after the start of the race were enough to drive me out of the game. For a while, I participated in all the debates and arm waving about what needed to be done to “save the sport”. That was my denial phase, and I’ve moved past it. This industry is no longer savable. There is a hypothetical horse racing industry that I would be attracted to again, but I am convinced now that there is simply no way to get there from here. And so I’ll watch the death throes with curiosity and wonder. How could such a good thing be totally destroyed from within. The power of mismanagement is truly awesome to behold.

[P-Dub]

JimP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 How could such a good thing
> be totally destroyed from within. The power of
> mismanagement is truly awesome to behold.

Reminds me of the housing meltdown of 10+ years ago. A group of people cared about their own pockets, nothing else mattered. Their greed brought it all down.

The difference is that the federal government bailed them out. That ain\'t gonna happen here.

I\'m just a fan. I have never participated in this sport in any other aspect. I have several friends that have owned horses, all of them are out. Same with those that were dedicated handicappers that pushed a lot of money through the windows. That stopped too.

I used to bet on horses a handful of times a month (once a week maybe a bit more). I couldn\'t tell you the last time I wagered on a horse race. Breeders\' Cup maybe?

My friends and I have have traveled to Santa Anita once a year for the last 30 years, usually Big Cap weekend. The excitement and anticipation, camaraderie, was palpable. We couldn\'t wait for that trip to get here. Great memories of great races, horses, scores and near misses. Dinners at The Derby, back to the Embassy to smoke a joint and handicap the next day\'s card. Laughing and arguing, constructing tickets. Getting up at 7am to catch the morning workouts, coming back for breakfast at the Embassy, and then heading off to the track with thoughts of cashing a ticket and watching great horses and jockeys ply their trade.

Shared Belief, Game On Dude, Silver Charm, Free House, Lava Man, Rock Hard Ten, Tiznow, Siphon, Best Pal. California Chrome, Medaglio D\'Oro, Point Given, Fusaichi Pegasus. So many others.

Stevens, Smith, Pincay Jr, Eddie D, McCarron, Day, etc..

All against the backdrop of my favorite place on earth with those beautiful mountains beyond the backstretch. Maui or Santa Anita?? Give me Santa Anita.

Now, its hard to get the gang back together. Those days are gone. Nobody really cares anymore. I\'m going in 2 weeks for the Santa Anita Derby, and to be honest I don\'t really give a sh!t. I\'ll stay with my cousin, have a great time because we always have a great time. But as for the trip to Santa Anita, while I will still enjoy it, it isn\'t remotely the same.

The more I think about the current state, the more bummed out I get. It didn\'t have to be this way.

[Niall]

Ladies and Gentlemen Furosemide, Salix, Lasix ect has been proven scientifically to be a performance enhancing drug. Anyone with just a bit of common sense could make an reasonable argument that the \"reaction\" to taking such a drug during physical exertion will probably be detrimental to overall health over time. An analogy might be the morning after cashing a big ticket at the Spa. I and others I know require ample recover time just to get back out there. By meets end? On the shelf ... Seriously though, its not good for the horse.