Baffert to enter Rabbit???

[MonmouthGuy]

Belmont controversy?

https://nypost.com/2018/06/10/belmont-controversy-erupts-did-alliance-ensure-a-justify-victory/

[Flighted Iron]

Florent geroux aka Cal Naughton jr. Can anyone say \"shake and bake\"? That just happened!

[hellersorr]

I can\'t read people\'s minds but I can\'t help but think of Bayern\'s Breeders\' Cup Classic win, where an egregious foul went unpunished by the stewards.

The trainer of Bayern?  Bob Baffert.

[JR]

Restoring Hope was only in there to direct traffic.

[boardedup]

That was disgusting, period.  An all around ugly look for racing. I instantly assumed that the other ownership interest\'s were financially compensated for basically doing everything they could to help the winner.  The NY Post article gives the impression that it wasn\'t a full on top down \"conspiracy\" amongst all involved.  While it certainly casts doubt in the direction of the jocks, it pretty much exonerates the \"money.\"  Unfortunately though, nowadays most people realize everything in this country is based off of The Golden Rule, you know, the one that says,  \"he who has the gold makes the rules\"

Frenchie has no comment, not even a rehearsed explanation?  That looks terrible regardless of what the actual intent and instruction was.  What has him so worried he\'s pleading the 5th? The situation as a whole, Justify\'s biggest threat Audible coming down with a phantom abdominal injury a week out.  Obviously a business decision from the same ownership conglomerate.  That\'s annoying, but you can understand it.  And hey they\'ll let TAP saddle Noble Indy, but not with blinkers?  Even though he ran his best with them on, and his best chance at winning is using his speed, TAP goes without?  Makes sense right? But equipment wouldn\'t have mattered anyway because the multi eclipse award winning jockey JJ decided to quote, \"call his own audible\" and take him back?  Really?  Did Repole get played?  Or is his request something else entirely?

Pretty poor all around, but when you add in the debacle that was Restoring Hope\'s ride?  Literally at every stage of the race?  It couldn\'t look much worse. It\'s worth mentioning that Baffert decided to scrap the blinkers on Restoring Hope for this one as well.  It seems odd that the trainer\'s of the two who\'s alleged game plan was speed both were entered without the blinkers they\'d been wearing in recent starts?  

 I was inundated with texts and even an actual phone call immediately following the race from what would be considered casual fans, searching for some sort of clarity on what they just witnessed. Talk about horrid optics for a sport scratching for legitimacy.  

Now what?  Let it fade away and do/say nothing and it leaves a sour taste and soiled perception to countless people who ripped up tickets.  Launch some sort of official inquiry and have it return anything nefarious on anyone on any level and the negative impact is even worse?  You can\'t quantify the long term damage and fallout that would bring.  Your completely damned if you do and damned if you don\'t.

 Was the precedent just set on the sports biggest stage that racing as a whole is all good with covert team work, be it perceived or otherwise?  Separate  Connections working together on and off the track to achieve a predetermined outcome? Racing couldn\'t recover from that.

It\'s a sad day for the sport when in the most high profile race of this particular year, the key to cashing a ticket is handicapping the ownership, connections, and partnerships, both public and private, as opposed to their entries actual ability on the track.

[johnnym]

https://mobile.twitter.com/horseracing4beg/status/1006003293372346368/video/1

Seems odd

[BitPlayer]

Geroux did talk to Dave Grening:

http://www.drf.com/news/horsemen-question-gerouxs-ride-restoring-hope

The oddest thing to me in the article is the comment from the Gaming Commission steward:

Steve Lewandowski, the New York Gaming Commission steward, said Sunday that there is no plan to talk to Geroux.  â€œNothing was brought to our attention,” Lewandowski said.

Dude, you\'re supposed to watch the race.

From a gambling perspective, none of this had much impact on me.  I never considered putting Gronkowski in my exactas.  Great ride by Jose Ortiz.

[Dana666]

So what is the point of all this? They\'re upset because Baffert had a plan, one that is perfectly legal by the way, and it worked. They need to get over it. Yes, the stewards should have taken a look, for sure, but even the NBC commentators said it was perfectly legit. How about all the previous failed triple crown attempts where horses were purposely attacked and taken out of their game so as not to win the crown? I can name quite a few. So what, this time it worked the other way. I didn\'t know Repole was such a cry baby. He wins enough on the NYRA circuit not to complain about anything.

I mean, for me, what stands out is how easy it all went after that. The whole thing was sort of anti-climactic. Those fractions were pedestrian at best. A bunch of slow, distance challenged (save Gronk) horses in futile chase mode. Gronk ran a tremendous race I thought given the fractions.

One other take away from this race is one has to weigh heavily any attempt EVER to beat the Browns, Bafferts, and Pletchers, not Saturday but most days, (a few others you could throw in) of the world.

How many people touted Mott\'s horse??? Mott is one of those old school trainers who has outstanding stock and wins like what 10-15 % of  his races; and there are an awful lot of them. You bet these guys and you\'ll go broke fast; yeah, once in a while something jumps up, but overall they cannot complete with the super-charged barns. Bet Mandella on the west coast, you\'ll talk to yourself. I\'m sure you all could come up with many more old schoolers who for the most part cannot hack it anymore. Have you ever seen a Jimmy jerkins horse run two good races in a row? Seldom happens. I\'m going to stop wasting money on these hall of famers, because their era has passed. I alwsy try to be non-biased but I\'m fast coming up with a list of trainers I simply will not ever play.

I remember years ago when the California trainers first started performance enhancing shall we shall and Charlie Whittingham suddenly became a 5% winning trainer. I thought Charlie must have forgot how to train horses or something.

Yeah Mott\'s going to beat Baffert. not in this universe. I mean, seriously, why do we spend so much time handicapping, all this money for all these products, sheets, workouts, racing forms, etc. Chad brown takes over; forget that the horse ran slow numbers in mile races on polytrack. he\'ll get lit up today. He only had the horse for a couple weeks. if he had him for a month he probaly wins, right?

Pletcher, Baffert, Brown, Rudy Rod, Assmussen, Brad Cox, Joe Sharp, Jason Servis, Navarro, so  so many others.

OK, lastly, and this RANT will end.

Why don\'t they have Breeder\'s Cups at Belmont anymore. Could there be any more perfect venue for racing\'s biggest days? geez, that drives me crazy. every year so cal.

[jbelfior]

If the brilliant NBC commentators said it was perfectly legit, then it must have been ok. ðŸ˜,

Btw: what\'s not being mentioned in many circles is the stunt Geroux plays at the quarter pole.


Good Luck,
Joe B

[trackjohn]

Couldn\'t agree more...breaks slow, rushes up, attempts to float half the field wide in the clubhouse turns, \'rides shotgun\' for more than a mile and conveniently slides over in front of Tenfold coming out of the far turn...whatever...

[Dana666]

What was the infraction? He carried the other horse wide?  His job was to protect Justify. Jockeys used to race ride back in the day, not so much anymore. Who would you disqualify if you were a steward?  This complaint is on the level of  chrome\'s owner a few years back.

[hellersorr]

Indeed.

Could be innocent, could be . . . not.

[Tavasco]

One little detail I haven\'t seen posted here. Geroux noted that his mount is an extremely aggressive horse.  So when he was rushed up to gain a forward position he became rank. That was, in large part why he needed to moved out wide. He didn\'t want to run up on Justify.

Most surprising to me was hearing John Velazquez say Noble Indy was unable to make the front. That is he couldn\'t run fast enough. He\'d have to have gone 10 wide early?

Lastly, the pace was a couple of seconds faster than the Brooklyn and about 1/2 second overall. In the Brooklyn the place horse War Story routinely runs -3\'s. I don\'t agree with the notion of a pedestrian pace.

Yes Geroux\'s account seems

[P-Dub]

Dana666 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what is the point of all this? They\'re upset
> because Baffert had a plan, one that is perfectly
> legal by the way, and it worked. They need to get
> over it. Yes, the stewards should have taken a
> look, for sure, but even the NBC commentators said
> it was perfectly legit. How about all the previous
> failed triple crown attempts where horses were
> purposely attacked and taken out of their game so
> as not to win the crown? I can name quite a few.
> So what, this time it worked the other way. I
> didn\'t know Repole was such a cry baby. He wins
> enough on the NYRA circuit not to complain about
> anything.
>
> I mean, for me, what stands out is how easy it all
> went after that. The whole thing was sort of
> anti-climactic. Those fractions were pedestrian at
> best. A bunch of slow, distance challenged (save
> Gronk) horses in futile chase mode. Gronk ran a
> tremendous race I thought given the fractions.
>
> One other take away from this race is one has to
> weigh heavily any attempt EVER to beat the Browns,
> Bafferts, and Pletchers, not Saturday but most
> days, (a few others you could throw in) of the
> world.
>
> How many people touted Mott\'s horse??? Mott is one
> of those old school trainers who has outstanding
> stock and wins like what 10-15 % of  his races;
> and there are an awful lot of them. You bet these
> guys and you\'ll go broke fast; yeah, once in a
> while something jumps up, but overall they cannot
> complete with the super-charged barns. Bet
> Mandella on the west coast, you\'ll talk to
> yourself. I\'m sure you all could come up with many
> more old schoolers who for the most part cannot
> hack it anymore. Have you ever seen a Jimmy
> jerkins horse run two good races in a row? Seldom
> happens. I\'m going to stop wasting money on these
> hall of famers, because their era has passed. I
> alwsy try to be non-biased but I\'m fast coming up
> with a list of trainers I simply will not ever
> play.
>
> I remember years ago when the California trainers
> first started performance enhancing shall we shall
> and Charlie Whittingham suddenly became a 5%
> winning trainer. I thought Charlie must have
> forgot how to train horses or something.
>
> Yeah Mott\'s going to beat Baffert. not in this
> universe. I mean, seriously, why do we spend so
> much time handicapping, all this money for all
> these products, sheets, workouts, racing forms,
> etc. Chad brown takes over; forget that the horse
> ran slow numbers in mile races on polytrack. he\'ll
> get lit up today. He only had the horse for a
> couple weeks. if he had him for a month he probaly
> wins, right?
>
> Pletcher, Baffert, Brown, Rudy Rod, Assmussen,
> Brad Cox, Joe Sharp, Jason Servis, Navarro, so  so
> many others.
>
> OK, lastly, and this RANT will end.
>
> Why don\'t they have Breeder\'s Cups at Belmont
> anymore. Could there be any more perfect venue for
> racing\'s biggest days? geez, that drives me crazy.
> every year so cal.

Excellent post.

Yes, the other Baffert herded Noble Indy wide. But to my eye, Justify broke so sharply and got to the lead rather easily that I\'m not so sure NI mattered without the \"interference\".  And if Repole was using NI to soften up Justify for his other horse.......then son you just got out smarted by a guy far better than you. Quit sniveling.

If NI rushed up to soften Justify, would people complain how \"unfair\" that was?? Doubt it. Its part of the game, and if you can help your horse win without breaking the rules too bad for the others. RH rushed up and didn\'t allow NI to engage Justify. After that, the other horses had their chances to run him down. They weren\'t good enough. This \"interference\" narrative is overblown.

I\'ve seen rabbits entered many times in big races. I\'ve seen jealous Woody Stephens sacrifice his own horse, because a filly whipped him in the Kentucky Derby.

This isn\'t anything new, its not illegal. Ever watch a NASCAR race with guys from the same outfit??

As to your other point, this is the nature of sports today. Deep pocketed owners, doing whatever it takes to win. The Warriors signing KD, Yankees and Red Sox sparing no expense signing stars, New England with Spygate. Horse racing has syndicates and trainers that will do whatever it takes. We\'ve discussed Baffert\'s record in New York, one that is as likely as Arcangues winning the Classic.

While we have no proof, many people much more in tune to the game than me, have wondered out loud about the methods of their successes. I find it hard to believe that these guys are just that much better at training a horse than the rest.

I\'ve been a racing fan for 40+ years, and my view of all sports is a lot more jaded than it was in my youth. I\'m starting to care less and less about all of it, and for those that know me its something they would never imagine happening. The only thing I root for now is the team I\'m betting on.

I didn\'t really enjoy watching the Dubs in the finals. That was about the most anti climactic championship I\'ve ever seen....and I\'ve loved that team since before they moved to Oakland.

The rich get richer, in sports and in life, and they don\'t care much how it happens or what you think about it.

[TGJB]

One of several things getting lost in this is the effect on bettors. If those two were being use to set up other horses, someone who bet on EITHER Noble Indy or Restoring Hope got screwed-- the horse was not in there to win. It is no different than betting on a horse that got stiffed.

After watching 6 straight Baffert horses run tops on Belmont day, and with there being no chance he was being entered as a rabbit, I used Restoring Hope heavily. Every dollar was thrown away.