A challenge of the sharpest brains at the Pegasus Tournament

[colin12]

Wow great dialogue I hope it continues. Lots of different points to cover: 1) BCBC I was in the BCBC this past year with a partner and it was the best $5k I ever spent. We came in 11th and got dq\'d up to 10th which makes us one of nine people ever to be moved up in a handicapping contest! That aside, for the 10k we put in we got 2 free clubhouse admissions both days with grandstand seats at the 1/16 pole which retailed for about $1,000. We got free racing forms, programs, lunch and about 15 free drink tickets plus access to a paddock bar that was for tournament players only that was beautiful and held a free champagne toast both days for BCBC players. We also got about $150 off our hotel room for being in the tournament. All told I thought it was about $2,000 worth of free stuff. Even if we came in last, I\'m not sure how we could have spent a better 10k gambling the whole year.
2) Christian: Keep up the good work! You have the understanding of the contests and the stature to make a difference. I think the small contests where the winner gets a free entry into the big contests is the way to go. It\'s the dollar and a dream mentality the sport needs. I also agree about cash tournaments as opposed to the NHC tournament which forces you to bet certain races a certain way. the object of the game should be to maximize return. Hopefully, you and others can get in the ear of the NTRA and change that for good.
3) Our 31 year new player: The World Series of Poker is won almost every year by someone younger than 25 many of which played in small tournaments to get in. Take Christians advice and play these tournaments on paper until you hone your skills and then start entering the feeder tournaments. It will be a challenge and a low cost way to get started.
4) Advancing the game: So how much will Christian\'s Crusade help the game? Who knows but it can\'t hurt. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is horse ownership and how it almost impossible to make money owning horses. I own a small piece of about 15 horses some claimers some bought at auction and some bred. I would be happy to lose 20% of my investment each year but 40% is more like it.I do it because of my love of the game and the fact that my kids are out of college and I can afford it. Read Alan Schuback\'s article in the Paulick report about French racing. It\'s enlightening on the subject. Unless horse racing does something to make ownership more attractive, less and less people will buy and breed horses which makes the racing worse and the gambling less exciting. I would love to hear ideas on what racing could do.
5) Pegasus Handicapping Contest: I\'m in and I\'m issuing a challenge to Christian my score vs yours winner gets a free drink at the Breezeway bar. I\'m sure I will be buying but considering my overall bar tab my accountant won\'t notice. Hope to get a chance to speak with you there and let me know what we can do as players to help these contests grow

[FrankD.]

Richard,

Happy New Year and I hope you enjoyed your recent Vegas trip.

I read an article this morning where as many as 18 states are looking to get into the bookmaking business. Legalizing sports betting in that many venues involving several race tracks in the mix will be an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions. It will do absolutely nothing for racing and any income created would be mere crumbs.

Have we learned nothing from the mass of casino’s that open, siphon off money from existing casino’s putting them out of business and the deck is continually shuffling the same dollars to the newest place de jour? Video crack was going to save the racing industry. How many Genting customers go next door to Aqueduct to ever bet a race? The NYRA races cannot be found on a tv in any of the casino bars. Finger Lakes got video crack to save it. Paisan Cuomo opens a full fledged casino a stones throw away killing their VLT business, so the new casino as well as the HBPA are subsidizing the operation to maintain purse levels. Oh YEAH, so it doesn’t hurt too much will cut racing days and NYS will guarantee Delaware North the Finger Lakes casino operator tax breaks to protect their income level to what it was before the competing casino opened.

BRILLIANT: So we have a race track that cannot even come close to being self sustaining, a casino operator being subsidized by NYS, a new casino being held up by the state to subsidize a race track and now we can add sports betting......
I’ve owned a few businesses in my day and never had CHARITY as a business plan.

Granted this is NY but do you think the running contest between Illinois & Louisiana as to who can put more of their  governors in jail will be a more transparent operation? Politicians will do what they do best, line the pockets of their cronies and themselves while robbing Peter to pay Paul. After all they will be out of office, in jail or not they will get their pensions and the cleaning up of their mess will be someone else’s problem.

Monmouth may be the possible short term exception to the rule as they have had an operational plan in place for several years. Christie threw racing under the bus there and dangled the sports betting carrot to the industry as its savior if it ever came? If it is indeed successful, worry not the next game of political football with a new administration will raid it in the name of education.

The pie is simply not big enough for the state to license, tax & take a revenue cut, the host track take their cut and for the bookmaker be it William Hill or whomever to turn a profit. The standard 11/10 vigorish on sports bets will not stand that many cooks in the kitchen. So what will they do? Raise the vig to 12/10 on parlays for sure,maybe 11.5 on straight bets, mess with money line payoffs etc.... Remember NYC OTB? The only bookie that ever lost money! They were guaranteed a 5-6% profit on every dollar they took in. How many of us would jump at a guaranteed return like that! No risk, 100’s of millions of dollars coming in just by unlocking the front door.

A bit off the contest topic but in the same vein that contests, give aways, gimmicks, slot machines or football betting will not do ANYTHING to “MAKE RACING GREAT AGAIN” FORGET ABOUT IT. Any business other than government that cannot be self sufficient is doing the dinosaur 🦕 walk.

Our beloved game has done nothing but self inflict wound after wound for the past 40 years. There will be no enhancing of the next generation of horse players guest experience because there is no next generation of horse players nor will there be. I’ll even define horseplayer in the most basic of terms as someone who will wager on horses & buy a racing form at least 10 times per year with one Wednesday in that number. Attend one live racing program once per year other than a big Saturday.

Frank D.

[bluechip21]

Oh I’ve been playing the game for about 3 or 4 years now. Which is still very young in the horse player world. As far as poker goes... no thanks. If I wanted to play card games, I’d play magic the gathering. I play the game because I love thoroughbred racing and I especially love the challenge a race presents.

As far as my original point goes... this sport needs fixing in a lot of ways (we all know this). I don’t think the drama surrounding tournement play is really worth wasting energy on. The BCBC and other formats may have their problems, but spending the time to complain about that is frivolous in my opinion. And more energy may be better spent figuring out what happens when half your player pool and client base dies off in the next 20 years.

[PlanetHellmers]

Colin!

I appreciate your enthusiasm. It\'s hard to find healthy passion with many horseplayers these days. Challenge accepted as long as the conditions require either of us must turn our bankroll over 7 times.  That is a minimum requirement to do well in these tournaments and surely you don\'t wish to make a bet between 50th place and 100th place :-) If both of us do well, then it\'s a proper bet. I play to win or go home with zero. I encourage you and others to do the same if you want to live life to its fullest! Either way, let\'s rap live. I\'ll be sitting with Duke Mattias or near him.

C

[PlanetHellmers]

Here\'s the link to more on the tournament and you can play from your desk, phone, couch, or several Stronach tracks...

https://www.paulickreport.com/horseplayers-category/xpressbet-exclusive-online-provider-500000-estimated-pegasus-world-cup-championship/

[richiebee]

Thanks for the link.

Mrs Richiebee nixed my request for the 13K, even though I told her at my age I
wouldn\'t have many more chances to howl with the big dogs.

I will definitely be pulling for you, since I think I read that a portion of
your winnings will be donated to thoroughbred aftercare or disabled jockeys.
That would make you a real hero.

But then again, Oddball did say that \"To New Yorkers, a hero is some kind of
weird sandwich...\"

All kidding aside, I appreciate your efforts to grow the sport of thoroughbred
racing. I am not sure that handicapping tournaments are a means to that end,
but then again I am the person who once suggested that racetracks should send
representatives to GA meetings. Sounds crass and wrong, but the point is that
racing should be trying to attract folks who have already shown a propensity
for gambling. Maybe if sports gambling is legalized this sort of cross-selling
will be feasible. In my limited experience, racing has thus far dropped the
ball, because as has been pointed out, there are no monitors showing racing or
betting windows in the Resorts World casino which is adjacent to the Big A.

[colin12]

Yeah my son is 7 years younger than you and he loves that magic game. I am having a very different experience with horse racing than many that have been posting on this board. the breeders cup in Del Mar was an absolute first class experience. I take a trip every spring and fall to Keeneland where racing is very alive and well. I regret not buying a place in Saratoga as that town has exploded as far as real estate values and now they have some really improved restaurant and bar choices and the live music scene is fantastic. I try to make as many days in Saratoga as I can. Gulfstream has world class racing and an intimate venue which is good for the numbers that racetracks get on a given day. Sure NYRA in the winter is a disaster but there is a lot of fun to have these days if you are a horseplayer. Good luck to you and hope to see you at the races someday

[colin12]

You mean $84,000 in total bets over the 2 days?

[TGJB]

Where are they hiding that fantastic live music scene in Saratoga? All I\'ve ever seen is cover bands, and SPAC.

[colin12]

One Caroline. It\'s mostly really good cover bands but they have some excellent young musicians who sprinkle in some original stuff. A lot of jazz and blues but I like that. Dango has the downstairs which is all cover bands but they have a couple with large brass sections that knock it out and get the crowd dancing. Jerry last year when I saw you in Saratoga i was at Siro\'s talking to 5 hot girls. Just call me when you are up there and I will get you to the right places

[FrankD.]

Colin,

Breaking news: The likelihood of Jerry Brown needing an after dark tour guide in any city is right up there with Donald Trump’s next resort being in Haiti or Nigeria!

[hooper]

Colin12 is right about one caroline. Local musician Chris Carey plays there often with 2 or 3 different line ups. Lot of original stuff.

[TGJB]

Frank, line of the young year.

Having said that, if there\'s a buck in it he\'ll be there. Well, the resort will, anyway.

[FrankD.]

I was just sayin !

https://amp.democratandchronicle.com/amp/1028047001

[moosepalm]

FrankD. Wrote:
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> I was just sayin !
>
> https://amp.democratandchronicle.com/amp/102804700
> 1

I don\'t believe the words \"market saturation\" were included in the lexicon made available to those doing the financial forecasting.  The really good news is that the Oneida Nation is about to open a casino in the Syracuse area, approximately an hour east of the beleaguered Del Lago Casino.  The political machinations that led to the approval of Del Lago and other new casinos in NY would be fodder for a Carl Hiassen book if he ever runs out of material in Florida, which is, of course, impossible.