Fairmount- negligence is an unintentional tort. Any wrongdoing here was manifestly intentional as all the defendants knew or had to know the impact that CAW wagering would have on pools, payoffs etc.

Fairmount- all I was trying to point out is this is a difficult lawsuit, with many hurdles and an uphill climb!

Silver- while I feel your pain and anger and am pleased that a legitimate firm and a plaintiff had the cahones to to shed light on the evil that is CAW wagering, this lawsuit is a long shot at best with a ways to go. First, no one is going to jail. Civil RICO lawsuits not only face a high bar but are quickly recognized by the judiciary as a plaintiff’s strategem to put fear in the defendants. As a matter of strategy this is what you can reasonably expect. The defendants will make motion to dismiss the complaint on various grounds that will put the case to sleep for 6-12 months. Even assuming the complaint is found to state a claim on behalf of the named plaintiff, in order for it to have any meaning it must achieve what is known as “ class action status” under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Rule 23 requires that four elements be met to achieve class action status- 1.numerosity- meaning the size of the putative class is so large that it would be more efficient and in the interests of judicial economy for all the so called common claims to be in one claim. I am prepared to concede this case meets this test. Second, adequacy of representation- can these lawyers represent such a large group without conflict etc. Again, this test will be passed. The next two items ( were I representing the defendants are difficult. Those two claims are commonality ( are each plaintiffs claims the same) and typicality ( a variation on a theme). Everyone on this board bets for a different reason, would have to prove ( it seems to me) that any or all of the bets forming the claim were made in races where CAW involvement was present, and- it seems to me- that they either would not have made the bet had they known of CAW involvement ( every single person on this board fails that element)and had a reasonable expectation that the payoffs reflected at, let’s say 1 minute to post, were what a winning better would receive if successful in his or her wager. The comments over years on this board alone, reflect that many of you have continued to bet notwithstanding the existence of CAW and no one forced you to do so. There are other defenses ( and good luck with enormous burden - if the case gets that far-  of engaging in pre trial discovery )but you get the thrust of my concern. As I said years ago, as one of the first to call this out on this board, eliminating or curtailing substantially your betting, is the best remedy- for yourselves and to send a message to the defendants. R

Do you have the will pays for the Juvenile Sprint- Distaff double? ThanksR

Roman- have not carefully reviewed but it jumped out at me that the lawsuit was filed in the Eastern District of New York, home of NYRA and not Kentucky or California. It is brought by a real firm.As noted elsewhere, damages irrelevant.  Richard

Go to horse tourneys.com and horseplayers.com. A deposit in one can be used for both. Horseplayers is NHC and BCBC. Horsetourneys is money and other handicapping tournaments. You will get the hang of it after a bit.  Good luck R

Go to Chat GPT and ask it “how to organize a boycott against major racetracks and ADWs for unfair betting practices “( tweak the question as you like). After a lengthy response Chat advised me, in conclusion, “A successful boycott of racetracks and ADWs would require clarity of demands, coalition building, targeted actions on high visibility days and media amplification. Sporadic individual protests won’t move the needle- but an organized data backed and media savvy effort could”. Chat will then ask if you want  follow up info. As you will see, Chat knows about CAWs and will provide you history ( if you ask nicely) of previous similar boycotts. Guys- knowledge is power. The only name that comes to mind as a leader is Michael Beychock but he has likely had enough ( TGJB would know better). Ranting is useless. As the Meyer Lansky character said in Godfather II- “ ah, whatI wouldn’t give for twenty more years “. Good luck. R

Fairmount and Boscar- the only possible legal claims against any of the ADWs or tracks is based on the failure to disclose. Let me back up for a second- several years ago as word of Elite’s ownership leaked out, I emailed the geniuses at Xpressbet to express my concern that I was being treated unfairly etc etc. The response- believe it or not- was a denial Xpressbet had any interest in Elite. Given my background and knowing bullshit when I read it, I pressed and asked “ ARE YOU TELLING THAT NO Stronach RELATED ENTITY HAS ANY CONNECTION WITH XPRESSBET.” Of course there was no response. There are two avenues of pursuit. The first is a retail horseplayers boycott. That will not happen. Second, is an appeal to the state legislatures of each track that is licensed by a state to conduct parimutuel wagering. Good luck with that. As painful as it may be to hear, if the tracks/ ADWs make full disclosure of the different “ categories” or levels of rewards they are free to fashion whatever business works for them. I do not intend to turn this into a political discourse, but whatever your political positions may be, we are living through a humongous era of plutocracy where the super big at everything rule and eff you if you don’t like it. It permeates media, technology and yes, horse racing! I was a Saratoga yesterday and the thread that ran through every discussion was CAW, small payouts etcâ€" but the complainers keep betting. As I have previously stated, as long as bettors keep betting nothing will change. Marshall Gramm ain’t gonna help you. The day of the successful retail better is over for 98% of the betting populace. Acknowledging that is very hard, since the game is fun. Most of my handle is contests ( today, like most big race days will be an exception). If you are a TGRAPH player you will do well in the contests. Good luck to all.

Roman- for those of us who will turn 80 before year’s end, what sucks is not having the opportunity to get old. CARPE DIEM!

Fairmount-while I appreciate your frustration and anxiety over the CAW related issues, there are several reasons , based on the information in your post, while such a lawsuit will fail. At its heart, such a lawsuit sounds in fraud. Any lawsuit asserting a claim of fraud must be pled with specificity. You cannot plead a claim for fraud based on an allegation that begins “ Upon information and belief ( the pools closed after the race commenced).” So when the motion to dismiss is made and Fairmount ( or whoever the plaintiff is) submits an affidavit in opposition to the motion to dismiss it will be bereft of facts and strong on anger and frustration. Second, the plaintiff in this mythical lawsuit is at risk for sanctions for commencing a lawsuit with zero facts to back up such a claim.( and this does not begin to address the fact that the defendant(s), may, if they choose, submit documentary evidence demonstrating there was no past posting. Third, of course, is the funding of such a lawsuit. That sort of speaks for itself. I do have one question for all the posters who continue to rail at the CAW mess. I understand your passion, history and love of the game. Simply stop betting for a bit. Not any of you specially, but bettors as a whole. We have historically shown the ability to be abused and come back for more. The irony is WE THE BETTORS, control the game. Without us,the racetrack owners, trainers, breeders etc are out of business. If you love the game, try the various contests ( Horseplayers or HORSETOURNEYS.com. They are fun, profitable and actually  assist in managing your bankroll and the joy of getting into the NHC or BCBC is cool. You can continue to play as often as you like, and as Thorograph sheet users you start with an immediate advantage over many of the contestants. I am older than probably all of you and my love of the game goes back to my first bet at Yonkers Raceway in 1964. You all have the power to force these changes. I have had these conversations with TGJB as well. WTF do you have to lose? Marshall Gramm and his ilk ain’t going away anytime soon. Sincere good luck.Richard

My gmail is richardmresnik@gmail.com- send me your real name so I can answer the phone

Thanks Fairmount. A shameless plug for Thorograph and its use in the contests follow- I have been outspoken that recreational handicappers have little chance of success against the CAW monster. The contests sponsored by Horseplayers and HORSETOURNEYS.com offer the perfect way to stay active, pick your spots as a bettor and get into large $ tourneys at modest cost.It cost me $18 last year to qualify and $30 this year. Coupled with the use of Thorograph the edge you have is substantial.I made  far more $ than I have ever made as a bettor. ( There is a huuuuge difference between handicapping and betting) Horse players are stubborn- If I can make the transition to being a contest player at this point in my life you all can. I have been fortunate enough to qualify each time I tried, made the semis the last 2 years and without taking away from any handicapping skills I may have, I could NOT have been successful without Jerry and Thorograph. I sat with a good group of handicappers the last 2 years- only one ( moi)was a Thorograph user! The Thorograph user made it to semis. Just do it!

https://apple.news/AMHLhd9-BTFybY8ZzMKdUpg- from todays Louisville Courier journal. ( I hope I cut and paste this correctly)

Stronach is also part owner of Elite! The tracks really really care about the bettors!

The timing of the so called move coincides- to the minute- with Baffert seeking an " emergency" preliminary injunction seeking a Stay of his suspension on the grounds, among others, that he will be irreparably harmed by loss of business. Hmmmm!