sighthound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > There should be a weekly list printed in every
> > print racing publication of all positives
> across
> > the country.  It should be on their websites.
> Why
> > doesn\'t anyone stand up?
>
> Street, Kentucky and California both publish
> theirs, and keep it relatively current.
>
> Edit:  here is Kentucky:
>
> http://www.khra.ky.gov/stewardsjudgesrulings/
>
> Here is California - search on stewards and year
>
> http://www.chrb.ca.gov
>
> And, here is New York:
>
> http://rulings.racing.state.ny.us/frm_Rulings.aspx


Thanks, Sighthound.  That\'s a start.  Now if the BloodHorse or other print publication would print those violations along with the violations in the other 40 or however many other jurisdictions we\'d have a good thing going.

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can tell from the figures. Trust me.
>
> There was a recent case of a well known trainer
> having a reading of 42 (he must have really
> screwed up, like maybe treated the horse twice).
> Don\'t know if they announced that one yet, or if
> he took days and kept his mouth shut.
>
> Richie-- if you are following this, you can see
> that whether a trainer has any infractions is
> beside the point.


TG, I trust that your information is accurate and that ticks me off.  I realize I\'m preaching to the choir so I\'m not really asking you when I ask why in the hell aren\'t they reporting all positives?  There should be a weekly list printed in every print racing publication of all positives across the country.  It should be on their websites.  Why doesn\'t anyone stand up?

sighthound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> The threshold for a positive, depending on the
> state, is 37 or 39 (for
> > protect-their-ass-in-court reasons). This leaves
> a
> > wide gap where trainers can AND DO drug horses.
>
> What would you like the TCO2 allowable level
> lowered to?
>
> What effect does a TCO2 of 36 vs 31 have on a
> horse?  How many lengths do you think this is?
> (considering that milkshaking doesn\'t make a horse
> faster, it works to allow the horse to hold it\'s
> speed longer before fatiguing).


You act as though you don\'t think the latter fact is a big deal when not fatiguing can and does lead to horses winning races or finishing stronger than they would\'ve without the additional oxygen in the bloodstream.

richiebee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Street Sense Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Richie, remember Favorite Trick and Countess
> > Diana?  Campaigning the champion 2yo filly and
> > colt in a year is a feat worthy of D Wayne, yet
> > here it was being accomplished by Patrick Byrne
> > (who?).  Who was the vet?  Allday.  Shortly
> after,
> > another one of Byrne\'s horses got a positive
> and
> > never has another trainer taken such a fall
> from
> > grace.  Both owners of Favorite Trick and
> Countess
> > Diana moved their horses to other trainers.
> That
> > just doesn\'t happen when a trainer won you an
> > Eclipse and apparently did such a good job for
> > you.  Rumor was that Allday set up Byrne to get
> > that positive.
> >
> > At some point one has to come to the
> realization
> > that where there\'s so much smoke there must be
> > some fire.
>
> Street:
>
> Even if I had forgotten, a certain denizen of the
> Big Top (I am not talking TG
> #s here) would never let us forget, as the Byrne/
> Allday alliance is almost as
> essential to CTC\'s mantra as is the Dead Pletcher
> Trio (which might be a good
> name for a punk/bluegrass band) and the nebulous
> connection between Tour de
> France cyclists and performance equines. Chuckles
> is still trying to determine
> if the Grassy Knoll was firm or yielding that day
> almost exactly 45 years ago.
>
> Street you were going along pretty strong,
> presenting a compelling case,even
> though your evidence was a bit aged, 10 years to
> be exact. Unfortunately you
> finish like a claimer in need of a myectomy when
> your last sentence in the first
> paragraph begins with the word \"Rumor\".
>
> I refer you to NCT\'s post where the Jesuit
> jurisprude (and my choice to cover
> himself in glory in Vegas in 2008) opines that
> \"Prosecution by circumstantial
> evidence is dangerous to our civil liberties\".
> Learned Hand, Benjamin Cardozo,
> or William O. Douglas may have been able to say it
> better, but it would have
> taken them 5 pages and the help of a law clerk.
>
> Further Affiant Saith Naught.


No fair for criticizing me for an attempt at responsibility.  Unless it\'s proven, it\'s a rumor, so I state it as such.  But let me point out that circumstantial evidence can indeed be used to convict a person.  There\'s a point that can be crossed where a reasonable person can no longer believe that it\'s just an unfortunate series of coincidences.

And it\'s not my fault that it\'s just a rumor.  Put me in charge of it and I\'ll make damn sure a race is run clean, it\'s hardly rocket science here.  Unfortunately, I\'m not in charge of it and instead we get to watch men pay $10 million for a single mare and hear how racing just can\'t find the money to clean things up.

Richie, remember Favorite Trick and Countess Diana?  Campaigning the champion 2yo filly and colt in a year is a feat worthy of D Wayne, yet here it was being accomplished by Patrick Byrne (who?).  Who was the vet?  Allday.  Shortly after, another one of Byrne\'s horses got a positive and never has another trainer taken such a fall from grace.  Both owners of Favorite Trick and Countess Diana moved their horses to other trainers.  That just doesn\'t happen when a trainer won you an Eclipse and apparently did such a good job for you.  Rumor was that Allday set up Byrne to get that positive.

At some point one has to come to the realization that where there\'s so much smoke there must be some fire.

sighthound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The economics of this sport never cease to
> amaze
> > me. I\'m not an expert on horse values, but it
> > seems to me the income streams don\'t even come
> > close to justifying the prices paid for horses.
>
> Opening up this week\'s Blood-Horse to the article
> crunching the final numbers for the Keeneland
> sale, the large excerpt in the middle of the page
> reads,
>
> \"Lurking under the lofty numbers posted by the
> Keeneland September sale is the fact that only 25%
> made a profit for their breeders\".


That 25% figure isn\'t correct.  They\'d need to count live money RNAs and sales negotiated after the horse goes through the ring for an accurate figure.

Lost Cause Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \"Street Sense Wrote:
> > HS might just go off the favorite in this race
> > considering the distance, surface and expected
> > pace. SS has shown in his last two that he\'s
> much
> > more ineffective and loses his closing kick when
>
> > he has to stay up closer to the pace. SS is
> going
> > to have to run faster earlier than ever before.
>
> > HS may run him off his feet.
>
> God, I\'m good.\"
>
> Hey Street..
> I wasn\'t trying to say that he should not go off
> favorite in the race.  I absolutely agreed with
> all of your points above including the fact that
> Nafzger would not have Street Sense fully cranked
> for that race and I felt Hard Spun should be the
> favorite also.  I was just saying that money will
> be bet on Street Sense regardless of how the race
> is going to set up because he is the Derby
> winner...and people love to bet the Derby winner
> no matter what...In the end Street Sense still
> went off as th favorite in the race...not by much
> but he did go off the favorite because people love
> to bet the dreby winner...


Thanks, Lost Cause.  I was seeing so much concession of this race to Hard Spun prior to it being run that I really thought it was possible that he could be at lower odds than the Derby winner.  Considering the fan factor the Derby winner gets (particularly one this hyped and still considered at the top of the class), I thought it was pretty interesting.

I love this crop of 3yos, they\'ve made this a hell of a fun year.

Rick B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Street Sense Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I\'m starting to think this forum isn\'t my type
> of
> > forum.  Too many anal people.
>
> Try:
> www.overanalysisofmorninglineforfourhorsestakesrac
> eswithobviousoutcomes.com
>
> Great forum.


Wow, you\'re one clever dude.

To top off the cleverness, you probably bet SS to win.

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \"You guys know how to note words highlighted in
> BOLD?\"
>
>
> Street,
>
> ....and you guys should check the chart which
> shows that Street Sense was the post time favorite
> not Hard Spun.Is the chart wrong?
>
>
> Mike


Did it end up being nuts to think HS would be the favorite, or did I not correctly predict that it was going to be closer than the ML spread and he actually WAS the favorite and one point, and was very close to being that at post time.

I\'m starting to think this forum isn\'t my type of forum.  Too many anal people.

P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Street Sense Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You guys know how to note words highlighted in
> > BOLD?
> >
> > My post was in response to someoen who indicated
> I
> > was a little nuts to think that Hard Spun might
> > just go off the favorite in this race.  I
> thought
> > the ML spread was off.
> >
> > If I ever post a brag over a bet, it wouldn\'t
> be
> > over one like this.
>
>
>
> Street,
> Then it might have helped if you had highlighted
> the original comment you were responding too.


It is bolded.  Just like \"is\" is, or do ya\'ll not see that either?

Biggest race of the day and nary a word from you guys.  Thought my light-hearted comment would kick start it.  Guess not.  Carry on about whatever the win pool is about.

You guys know how to note words highlighted in BOLD?

My post was in response to someoen who indicated I was a little nuts to think that Hard Spun might just go off the favorite in this race.  I thought the ML spread was off.

If I ever post a brag over a bet, it wouldn\'t be over one like this.

Street Sense Wrote:
> HS might just go off the favorite in this race
> considering the distance, surface and expected
> pace.  SS has shown in his last two that he\'s much
> more ineffective and loses his closing kick when
> he has to stay up closer to the pace.  SS is going
> to have to run faster earlier than ever before.
> HS may run him off his feet.

God, I\'m good.

The farm where the horse is standing is your best bet.

Anyone think the final work was odd?  Shouldn\'t Nafzger have put a sharpener into the colt considering the field/pace scenario (iow, Hard Spun)?

Silver Charm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perfect Drift,
>
> The average fan doesn\'t pay the bill.
>
> I do
>
> And yes I can tell the difference \"visually\"
> between 1:08 and 1:11.
>
> Gimme 1:08 for Grade One runners. Because thats
> what the Great Ones used to do.


But what if great ones run a 1:11 on a different surface?  

You really shouldn\'t care so much about final times because half the time they\'re the result of the surface anyway.