How much would 8% takeout move the handle?

[Topcat]

MonmouthGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree on Monmouth and I think that is what they
> are trying to do.  Delayed by 1-2 years after
> Sandy.  Local residents have fought against lights
> but you are right on track with how it should be
> done.


Monmouth WEEKDAY nights is a very good idea.   The 800-pound gorilla is that the Trots in the Swamp would scream bloody murder.

[TempletonPeck]

I, for one, would immediately start betting ~$35-40k/year there. I presently play about 1x/week, sometimes 2.

Don\'t know how much difference that makes in the grand scheme (can\'t begin to guess how many or few of me there are), but there it is.

[TempletonPeck]

By the way, that would be up from my present Canterbury handle of $0.

[Wild Again]

Mr Brown

We spoke about 10 or 11 years ago when I bet on horses seriously.
My group and I bet about $15,000 per week in the good old days.  And in the real good old days a little bit more.

In 2014-2015 I played almost every day of Gulfstream bet about $150-$200 per day.  It was just for fun, give me something to do during the afternoons.

Once Gulfstream closed I played maybe 10 or 12 times DMR SAR MTH.
Again Maybe $150-$200 per day but without a doubt not more.

If you can convince Cantebury to have an 8% take and a wagering menu almost identical to Gulfstreams maybe I start betting serious again.

And that is how you convince the other tracks to do what we want.  You put your money where your mouth is.

F the rebate shops; the same take for everybody, let the better man win that\'s the American Way.

Thanks

John Perona

[Wrongly]

I have always wondered why these ATM style machines haven\'t been used.  Louisville just got Keno a year or so a bit in the dark ages.  Still I think these machines would be widely accepted.  Make little sense that it hasn\'t been tried.

[miff]

John,

Tough to \"F\" the rebate shops and not adversely affect the game overall. It is estimated that up to $2 billion of handle(20% of the total handle) comes in from  rebate houses/robotic batch bets from several venues.Much of this handle relates to whales/rebaters trying to hold an ROI of a couple of points, after rebate,over the long haul.

Personally skeptical that Cantebury or alike venues will attract some players regardless of takeout. Even if pool liquidity is decent, what type of quality would the racing be? Think there\'s enough players that would embrace Cantebury,but many would still be playing the higher takeout GP meet during Jan-Mar.The sum total may be that the Canterbury\'s of the game will cannibalize the pools of the GP\'s of the game but doubt handle goes up overall.

Mike

[miff]

Wrong,

Fyi, it\'s a combination of NYC/NYS/NYRA as to why nothing has happened with the \"super otb\" style wagering tele theatres/atm\'s.Politicians all want a piece and the overall will to get this done may not be there.NYRA claims to have recaptured all of the lost handle from the closure of NYC OTB via NYRA 1 adw platform.

Clueless Kay/NYRA is wasting windfall slot capital on nonsense murals,HOF red jacket Bullspit el al while NYRA races continue to be mis-timed because of poor/ancient teletimer technology.There are other critical issues needing attention also but they ignore or stonewall.

Mike

[Wild Again]

Mike

Substitute Cantebury for Any Track USA, The reality is the game can only continue if the takeout is less.  How we get their is one question the other question do we get their or does the game die.

I\'ve played for close to 40 years the track was the ONLY place my entire family was happy.  It had something for everyone.

The only way change can come is if the players demand the change.

The only way to demand change is thru your actions.

Somebody needs to lead.  And the rest of us need to follow.  

Some might think the leading is the hard part, it isn\'t.  The hard part is following.

If anyone wants to approach any track and offer them an increase in handle on the condition that if the increase in handle comes, they will lower their take to 8% for the next meet I would play their exclusively.  Whats the worse that can happen.  They change their mind.  Then we call it quits.  We admit defeat and start playing poker.

From what I understand this board has a following of industry insiders.

Its time for one of them to step up and lead.

Thanks

John Perona

[miff]

John,

All good thoughts but uniting players/handle a tough one.Given the cost to run live race meets, handle would have to at least double for racing to survive with a takeout of 8% across.

If the 4 top venues( Cali, KY, FL, NY)somehow met in the middle, there could be some meaningful changes but that\'s a long shot, every venue 100% parochial.

Doubtful racing will ever die, more likely to stay stuck in neutral for some time.


Mike

[BitPlayer]

I know I\'ve made this point before, but it\'s been a while so:

Bottom line, the thing that funds racing (ignoring horse owners and slots) is the net amount the public loses.  My guess about big-money players is that they are more likely to be sensitive to how much they are winning or losing.  If they stop winning, they stop playing.  Bringing that kind of money into the game is of no real long-term advantage.  Players who win are just another mouth for the industry to feed.

That said, the industry does need some players to win, so that others will make the attempt (and mostly fail).  But the industry also needs to make it enough fun to play that people won\'t mind losing.  Does the lower takeout do that, because people get more bang for their buck?  I don\'t know the answer, but that\'s the real question.

[Topcat]

BitPlayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know I\'ve made this point before, but it\'s been
> a while so:
>
> Bottom line, the thing that funds racing (ignoring
> horse owners and slots) is the net amount the
> public loses.  My guess about big-money players is
> that they are more likely to be sensitive to how
> much they are winning or losing.  If they stop
> winning, they stop playing.  Bringing that kind of
> money into the game is of no real long-term
> advantage.  Players who win are just another mouth
> for the industry to feed.
>
> That said, the industry does need some players to
> win, so that others will make the attempt (and
> mostly fail).  But the industry also needs to make
> it enough fun to play that people won\'t mind
> losing.  Does the lower takeout do that, because
> people get more bang for their buck?  I don\'t know
> the answer, but that\'s the real question.


Among the utter certainties surrounding lower takeout  . . . players last longer.

[BitPlayer]

Is that because it takes them longer to burn through a fixed bankroll (no net gain to the industry) or because their improved results persuade them to increase the size of their bankroll?

[P-Dub]

BitPlayer Wrote:
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> Is that because it takes them longer to burn
> through a fixed bankroll (no net gain to the
> industry) or because their improved results
> persuade them to increase the size of their
> bankroll?

Players will sustain their bankroll longer, obviously.

They won\'t increase the size of their bankroll, but they may be more willing to reload.

[Boscar Obarra]

As that chart I posted reveals, it could be as simple as the public FEELING better about the game, the experience, when their bankroll doesn\'t disappear as quickly.

  That\'s why Walmart is bigger than Whole Foods.

[miff]

Interesting article on how real gambling execs attempt to tackle their problems vs the Clueless Clowns that run racing.A classic distinction between approaches by bonafide gambling execs at the casinos with innovation vs racing execs stuck in neutral ad infinitum.

 
Drudge Report;



As gamblers shun stingier slots, casinos shake things up

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Move aside one-armed bandits. The casino floor is making room for game zones with over-sized popping dice, digital spinning Big Six wheels and virtual roulette with an eye on adding arcade-style video games in the not-so-distant future.

As gamblers appear to be shunning stingier slot machines that don\'t offer as many payouts, game-makers and casinos are keen on coming up with the next big thing to keep people playing.

The changing casino floor will be on full display this week at the industry\'s premiere trade show, the Global Gaming Expo on the Las Vegas Strip and in properties across Sin City in the coming months.
Here\'s what the casino industry has been facing and their plans:
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TIGHT SLOTS, LOST GAMBLERS

Slot machines have long been suspected of keeping a tighter grip on the money gamblers feed into them.
The proliferation of penny slots, in particular, with minimum and max-bets that far exceed a single copper coin and carry with them inherently worse odds at getting one\'s money back, has meant a gambler\'s wager doesn\'t last as long as it used to.
Casinos across the country, with few exceptions, have been keeping more of what\'s wagered on slots, according to research commissioned by the Association of Gaming Equipment Manufacturers.
Their bottom lines, though, haven\'t gotten an obvious boost. Revenue earned from slots has been on the decline for years. That\'s because gamblers may be walking away from what they see as a raw deal among other reasons, said Marcus Prater, executive director of the industry group.
In Nevada, where the average payback on slot machines is 93.6 percent of every dollar wagered, machines must offer no less than a 75 percent average payback to the player. Most vary based on the minimum bets.
Changing the hold — the amount the casino keeps — isn\'t as easy as pressing a button. Prater said it requires alerting regulators and switching out a chip in the machine.

Tom Jingoli with slot-machine maker Konami and the association\'s president, said he hopes the survey\'s results spark conversations during the conferences between companies like his and casino operators, none of whom agreed to comment on the survey for this story except for the Downtown Grand near Fremont Street in Las Vegas. The CEO of that casino, Jim Simms, called the reasons for falling slot revenue, including slot-hold, \"nebulous\" and touted his casino\'s increasing rewards for loyal slot players.
Casinos devote most of their gambling floor to slot and video card-game machines, though the number in Nevada has been dropping since 2005 by nearly 15 percent to 152,263 slot machines as of last year, according to Gaming Control Board statistics.
The number of slot machines dropped 19 percent on the Las Vegas Strip.
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SHIFT TO SKILL
Whether it was the recession, worse odds of winning or disinterested would-be younger gamblers, the industry has realized they need to appeal to players wanting a challenge based on skill.
This month, Nevada regulators approved rules allowing for a player\'s skill to play a role in winning, whether in part or in whole, which could lead to casinos looking a lot more like an arcade.
Casinos such as MGM Grand have already redesigned parts of their floors to accommodate elaborate electronic versions of dealer-less table-games, including craps, roulette and stadium-style seating for baccarat.
Justin Andrews, the casino\'s vice president of slots, said they\'ve crunched the numbers and players on those machines are 11 years younger on average than players on the rest of the casino floor.
\"Millennials are more attracted to the electronic table games than the traditional slots,\" he said.
Casinos aren\'t abandoning their most reliable and loyal gamblers who still prefer traditional slots, though, that often come decorated with the brands of popular movies and television shows. At the Global Gaming Expo, manufacturer IGT, for one, plans to debut TMZ, \"House of Cards\" and \"Breaking Bad\" licensed slots.
Slot revenue still accounts for 61 percent of the $11 billion Nevada casinos earned from gambling in 2014.
But casinos and game-makers are hoping to broaden their reach with an eye on the future.
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GAMBLIFIED GAMES
The Downtown Grand casino-hotel near Fremont Street is redesigning its casino floor with plans to add skill-based games akin to an arcade at its entrance sandwiched between two bars, one focused on craft beers, as early as January.
Nearby screens would broadcast live sports and footage of e-sports where spectators watch video-game players compete for cash. The hotel hopes to eventually host its own e-sports tournaments, the \"icing on the cake,\" for their casino floor, said Seth Schorr, chairman of Fifth Street Gaming which operates the casino at the Downtown Grand.
Schorr also sits on the board of GameCo, a young company developing \"video game gambling machines\" for casino floors that will reward players who show some skill when playing first-person shooting or racing games, for example, with math behind the scenes that isn\'t entirely unlike video blackjack or poker.
\"They\'ve gamblified them,\" Schorr said.
Blaine Graboyes, co-founder and CEO of GameCo, said younger players aren\'t interested in a \"passive chance-based\" game. \"This is really the opportunity for casinos to reinvigorate slots,\" he said.