LISTEN UP.

[catcapper]

Excellent point. I like to believe there are enough good minds in this industry to figure it out.

If I may add another thought to this discussion. Everyone feel free to correct me if my facts are off or if you feel I am generalizing too much.

Back in the 80\'s, then Pres. Reagan changed tax laws that radically effected ownership in the thoroughbred industry. Many tax-breaks were taken and away, and as a consequence many of the smaller, old school farms disappeared. At the time, many of them raced their homebreds, they could take care of their turnouts and layups themselves, and finally they could retire them. Those farms that survived had a hard time and most had to change their business model to do so. A lot of stock went to sale. As change begets change, a new ownership model came into being, namely large partnerships composed of mainly fans, but few, if any horseman but those in the management of it. The dominant profile of ownership changed. These partnerships, for legitimate business reasons, had to predicate their model on a quick turnaround because a large percentage of their clients were either not of the mind or means to invest in a horse for 3 or 4 years before it could get to a race, and then, it might not. It was important not to let these new owners sour on the business. After all, as everyone knows, the owners write the checks. A return on investment had to be quick if this model was to succeed.
So the nature of breeding changed. The era of \"cheap speed\" was born.  and, I believe, drugs became more prevalent to keep them running with less turnout and time in general allowed to the horses. Lasix opened the door to raceway medications. (One of its uses was, and continues to be as a masker to other drugs administered outside of the rules.)

SoCal, your point is very important. Especially about the need for thoughtful transition in the breeding shed. That is where it all starts.  

The business can change again.

[TGJB]

Cat-- coupla things.

First, you can have a gambling business without it being a sport, but you can\'t have this sport without it working as a business. What you would have would be the hunt meets they have down your way.

Second, Lasix solves a physical problem. EPO does something entirely different. Clenbuterol is somewhere in between. But that\'s why Lasix was made legal, and as importantly, why it\'s listed in the program-- bettors need to know the problem has been solved, otherwise some people have a huge information edge.

Does that mean I\'m okay with the way Lasix is treated now? No. The original rule was fine-- track vets administered it, and you had to show you really bled to get it. They stopped doing that because tracks didn\'t want to spend the money. If they went back to that system they would greatly reduce the percentage of horses on Lasix. And as far as it being a performance enhancer, as I said in the 2012 BC seminar, cursory analysis looks like it\'s worth about a point. So you could make horses who use it carry a 5 pound penalty.

[catcapper]

JB, JB, JB, Honey, Darling, Daddy,

That response does not seriously address anything except your own vested interests in keeping Lasix around. Yes, numerous numbnuts will surround you with cheers, but we both know they don\'t think for themselves. Lucky you, but poor me and my like.  

Proof - your website clearly states advertisements are not allowed but you recently allowed (like the BloodHorse print publication has had to do to stay in print) what are really advertisements disguised as articles.  Remember, the one about calcium depletion with Lasix - but was promoting a new product to replace calcium and so wel could all keep using Lasix  happily everafter. As if calcium depletion is the biggest problem with Lasix. Is that the problem it addresses? Or EIPH? Are there not other consequences? You are being supremely disingenuous. How terrrribly disappointing. Even hypocritical.

You simply and completely failed to address the \"several other good questions\" at all. Rather, you avoided them. Are you surrounded by numbnuts buzzing in your ear as we speak? Pesky aren\'t they.

Belittling me will get you nowhere. It only makes you look short-sighted and small-minded. Maybe you\'re not as smart as I thought. You might think Allday is a problem for the business, but I am beginning to think you are as much so with your very personal agenda masquerading as a crusader for reform. You just want it easy for yourself. Don\'t you run a partnership dependant upon the less knowledgeable than you?

It is short-sighted,non-creative thinkers like yourself that can\'t see a business here without Lasix. What else would you like to allow? Undisclosed periostal stripping to start? Foolish you, not me.

Be brave JB, think the big thoughts.

[TGJB]

Whaaaa?

The only thing worth addressing there is the advertising thing. Didn\'t know we said that anywhere (though we more or less have a policy, for the moment), and we didn\'t get paid for the calcium thing you think is an ad.

I\'ll try to be brave.

[catcapper]

Whaaaa? is my question.

Do you deny that Lasix has performance enhancing properties?

What were the \"several good questions\" you originally acknowledged?

I know you are at the Spa, enjoy yourself, but please, don\'t try to be brave. Be brave.

[TGJB]

1-- only to the limited degree I described.

2-- I answered the good ones over two posts.

3-- I didn\'t leave yet. No shot I would be in this conversation up there.

You want to lighten up on the personal attacks. That\'s me being extraordinarily nice about it.

[catcapper]

1, Well you are wrong, check the facts. You wrote \"it solves a physical problem\" but you mention no problem. So, do you mean EIPH? How does it \"solve\" it? How so? Please be specific.  And I know you must know there are other performance enhancing properties subsequent to its use. Either you are playing dumb or are uniformed.

2. Really? How subjective.

3. This a conversation? Genuine conversation requires listening, not merely hearing. Have a good time when you can get away.

Didn\'t realize you were so sensitive. I get the oblique putdowns, but they don\'t deter me. You are silly to try to blow off the idea of racing without Lasix as merely hunt meets from down here. Get off your high New York horse and look around.

Rest easy, I can ban myself. Beginning to wonder if it is worth my while anyway.
If you disagree, convince me.

[TGJB]

Not interested in convincing you, too busy trying to solve the drug problem for my own personal advantage. And yeah, that\'s exactly what I said-- racing without Lasix is a hunt meeting.

[Flighted Iron]

Yes, numerous numbnuts will surround you with cheers, but we both know they don\'t think for themselves. Lucky you, but poor me and my like.

If you seriously mean numbnuts i must say they don\'t tingle like they used to
since approching 50 years old. If you meant numbskull,now that\'s an entirely
new ball of wax. Performance enhancing in the sense that it\'s similar to an
unsound horse on painkillers is total rubbish. Performance advantage possibly.
Not this extreme, but in the sense of one guy wearing air jordans and the other
wearing Chuck Taylors. Pre and post Lasix admin testing, more sophisticated testing , random testing with much harsher penalties, etc.. . As far as discontinued use of Lasix because of pollution to the gene pool, I\'ll need some
real proof.

[BH]

Catnapper:

I was the one that posted the article re/ KER. Seriously pal, if I were schilling for them do you think I would have chosen this forum?

Although the way you brought and bring attention to the article may make you worthy of a Thank You at the very least.

Go to their website, KER. Oops, there\'s that schill thing again. Familiarize yourself with their work and then decide how important advertising on Thorograph is to them.

Start on this page:

http://www.ker.com/library/PublishedResearch/

[Benton]

Thanks, Jerry for sending this out.  I did my part and I know you will keep us informed on how we can continue to make racing the best we all deserve!

[Breakage]

I\'m not filling out any survey, talk abt perpetually pissing into the wind and I will be complaining forever.

the posts regarding drugs are hysterical-they will always beat the system. Players will always whine about it, and some small ignorant faction of pea brains  will delude themselves into not playing from it.

the only problem facing the sport that matters is the usurious take out.
the people that know a little but think they know a lot aka doctors, lawyers, brokers etc know enough to not play.

unlike these people who are doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome as the last million times-

I surveyed 120 people who bet poker and sports online but not racing. They will break the law because those things are beatable unlike horse racing which unless one is getting the best rates and the best information is not.

[miff]

Coin flip amongst many serious players, takeout or pool integrity, takeout by a nose!