top five big race rides in history

[Silver Charm]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

[TGJB]

That race was 16 years ago, and I can\'t remember what I had for dinner last night. I remember I thought he was forward moving, and didn\'t like a lot of others.

But one thing this does bring up-- in the old days you would look for horses to run new tops in the Derby. In the last few years there have been very few new tops, with many horses hitting the board and winning while just pairing tops.

Better?

[Silver Charm]

Yes

The short rest was something that made him tricky. I would like to give you and some of the other flawed competitiors credit for having that changed.

Races such as the Blue Grass and the Ashland were Derby and Oaks preps less than two weeks from the big show. Now they have been moved to 3 and 4 weeks out.

Remember when the Wood was 2 weeks out???

Who influenced this change???

[Phalaris]

The backing up of major Derby preps went on in the 1980s and 1990s. Without my classic PPs on hand (I have them all back to the late 1940s, but not at the office), I recall that it was about 1990, give or take a few years, that the Blue Grass, Wood Memorial and Arkansas Derby retreated to their present place on the calendar.

Since the early 1970s, there has been a reduction in the number of pre-Derby 3YO starts, a significant increase in the elapsed time between the final Derby prep and the Derby, and a decrease in the likelihood that higher-repute 3YOs take part in races at a mile or less. As late as the 1970s, a horse won the Derby with a 7f prep a week before the race, a strategy that had produced a fair share of Derby winners in years before but which would seem unthinkable now.

[Silver Charm]

Phalaris great post.

Here is a bit of trivia.

What horse in that Alysheba Derby came in with the least amount of rest??

Hint: It wasn\'t Alysheba or War the DQ winner of the Blue Grass.

[Michael D.]

now were are getting before my time, but i watch the replays of last twenty or so travers each year at the spa on the morning of the big race. i think we have to add mccarron\'s travers ride on 49er to the best ride list. day saved all the ground on STG, but mccarron got the jump on Day, and the race was over before they even hit mid stretch. two great horses......... (anybody notice that mccarron\'s name has been popping up a lot on this thread?)



Post Edited (12-08-03 14:31)

[Silver Charm]

I don\'t really know if his rides on Tiznow were great trips, but he rode the livin hell out of him down the stretch in both BC Classics.

[Michael D.]

i think in 15 or so horse fields, they were brilliant rides. if tiz was wrangled back in either race in order to save ground, he never would have won. he just wasn\'t explosive enough. the horse needed to be outside where he could just cruise along at his own solid pace (imagine if mccarron had him on the inside at Bel that day in order to save ground?)

[affirmedny]

On The Line - winner of the derby trial?

[MO]

If this is addressed to me:
I was still using the Beyers, dosage, experimental hcp within 10 pounds of the highweight and the angle that you had to finish in the top three of your last race which also had to be a major Derby prep. Alysheba was DQ\'d from 1st to 3rd in the BG, had the dosage and was a dual qualifier and also had his entrapped epiglotis fixed before the Blue Grass. The short rest did not bother me, it was hall of famer Jack Van Berg training, so I figured he knew what he was doing.

[jbelfior]

I bet on BET TWICE throughout the Triple Crown and got rewarded for my patience in the BELMONT. I still argue that BET TWICE may have won the Triple Crown if he had come into the Derby with a recent race. Croll brought him in on 5 weeks rest.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[Silver Charm]

affirmedny--You are correct. On The Line ran in the Derby Trial which at that time was still considered the last remaining Derby Prep. Not anymore.

MO--the question was not directed at you but good answer. Those were some of the angles back then, not so anymore. How else did I come up Ferdinand?
He and Groovy were the only two dual qualifiers left.

Joe B--Croll claimed the horse got drugged on Derby Day which is actually something that probably happens quite often, just not in the manner he accused some unknown party of doing.

[jbelfior]

Silver Charm---


Croll was referring to HOLY BULL not BET TWICE.



Joe B.

[Phalaris]

Avies Copy, a longshot third in the 1987 Derby, was also coming out of the Blue Grass; On the Line took the field as far as he could, which was just about the quarter pole, before dropping back. If I recall, No More Flowers also came out of the Derby Trial that year.

1987 may be the last year that a horse ran in all three classics and the Met Mile in between. Gulch failed to hit the board in the classics, but did win the Met.

[MO]

...and I think that there hasn\'t been a deeper, more competitive crop since 1987.



Post Edited (12-12-03 23:23)