Letter to Cuomo

[kencbs]

A new group called Clean Horse Racing posted on their Facebook page a 9-page letter sent by Sheila Lyons, DVM to Gov. Cuomo regarding lasix and drugs and how the sport should be managed.  Since I don\'t know how to do it, I\'m hoping someone can find this and post it here for all to read and comment on.  I\'d want to hear Jerry\'s opinion on this.  Thanks, Ken

[miff]

\"Sheila Lyons, DVM, ACVSMR\"
Lasix has not ended EIPH in race horses. The permissive use of lasix has however, led to under-reporting of the true incidence of this condition\"



Dr Lyons well known shill for those stumping on the Clean Up The Game bandwagon.They have a website @www.cleanhorseracing.com where you will find the usual suspects on that side of the aisle.

[sighthound]

This group is a bunch of fools with the agenda that lasix is the root of all ills in horse racing.

[miff]

Received no less than 3 solicitations, from this group, in various mannners asking me to sign a pre-written letter to Gov Cuomo to ban lasix.

[kencbs]

So what are you saying?  Those who want to clean up the sport are dead wrong?  We should keep things just the way they are - there\'s no drug problems in the sport?  She went into a lot of subjects besides just lasix - is she wrong on all of her other points?

[miff]

Lasix Problem/issue Highly exaggerated, check the results of other national vets stats.Perception far worse than facts. A group with an agenda behind most of this.No question racing has issues, many besides drug thing but of equal importance to racings survival.

When was the last time you read about an effort to substantially reduce takeout, pool integrity,transparency/disclosure by track management?

Many Substantial players would throw the lasix issue under the bus for some meaningful takeout relief, for example.

Missed all the articles on that stuff, sick of hearing about Lasix which is available to all and used by the disingenuous  phonies that are stumping against it.The implications of eliminating lasix are off the charts negative for racing and will knock out MANY small/medium outfits,without question.

[kencbs]

So are you saying that the rest of the planet (Europe, Japan, etc) that don\'t allow lasix are all fools and we\'re the only ones who know what we\'re doing?

[Flighted Iron]

2) They race without Lasix in Europe, in Hong Kong, in Japan. Why do we need it in the U.S.?
• Outside of the United States, the majority of racing jurisdictions still use archaic medical
science when it comes to an official diagnosis of EIPH.6 If a horse does not show evidence of
epistaxis (bleeding from one or both nostrils), they are not considered bleeders. With the modern
technology available to aid in diagnosis, this is the medical equivalent of refusing to use an X-ray
machine to diagnose fractures. It is irresponsible to wait for a horse to be in crisis to make a
diagnosis.
• Outside the United States, the majority of racing jurisdictions fail to officially acknowledge the
prevalence of EIPH, despite the incontrovertible
evidence that it affects the majority of horses.
BUT, trainers in Europe and Australia use Lasix
during training on a regular basis. The trainers
acknowledge its effectiveness in treating EIPH--
the ONLY motivation for using Lasix during
morning workouts is the alleviation of EIPH.
Horses are not allowed to race on Lasix in
Europe or Australia, but it is regularly
used during morning workouts. Why
would horsemen use it in the mornings, if
not to treat EIPH?


kencbs,



http://www.nytha.com/pdf/the_lasix_question.pdf


Thanks,
 Flighted iron

[Footlick]

I am not in the business, but the US used to run horses without meds when I was growing up and it seems the horses survived as well as the smaller operations. Could someone in the business tell me why would it be so much more expensive for those operations to run their horses without Lasix and Bute and other drugs?  I am truly interested because it seems to work in other parts of the World.  Why can\'t it work here?

[miff]

They do Not race nearly as often as we do and that is bullshit that they do not \"treat for blood\" in some way.Testing is not nearly as sophisticated either. Australian racing a cess pool in my time there buying horses, home of the milkshake.

They race off farms also, a recipe for cheating/experimenting with \"stuff\"

Who cares what they do in other countries

Cost not the sole issue,it\'s about income per start vs expenses, no lasix equals = less starts/income with the same expense.How\'s that work?


Purists should buy a few horses and get bills, your attitude would change in a heartbeat toward lasix and other helpful drugs presently being used.

[Footlick]

I know that they train with it.  So could we and possibly so did we when we had no raceday med rules.  But the fact still is that they do not allow it on the raceday itself, and it doesn\'t seem to have hurt the European, Australian or Japanese thoroughbred.  Bleeding isnt acknowledged in Europe because the horse would be banned from racing for a certain amount of time, or at least that used to be the rule.  That is why they do not acknowledge a horse is a bleeder.  If a horse was seen bleeding, it was banned from racing for a certain amount of time. If it bled and was reported a certain amount of times, the horse was banned from racing for life.  It obviously was not a rule in the day of Flying Childers, who I believe bled profusely each race he ran, but it might still be a rule today. It makes alot of sense to me to do that for the welfare of the horse.  Then the horse can become a show horse or a hunter/jumper, etc. Lasix does not stop bleeding.  There is no drug used, as far as I know, that will stop a horse from bleeding.  Do you know if horses are still banned if seen bleeding in Europe?  If everyone is trying to hide it I would say yes, which means Lasix is not the answer to the bleeding problem, but masks the bleeding problem, possibly.  But many trainers have come out in favor of Lasix.  Could use in training but not on raceday work here?  Or are we just to inundated to stop it now?  I am not that knowledgeable all the intricacies of the drug, so I would like to hear others opinions and be corrected if there is proof I am wrong.

[Footlick]

Thanks for the response.  I\'m not that knowledgeable of Australian racing, and I do know that cheating and experimenting happens everywhere.  I do know that in Europe, according to the rule, any foreign substance found in the blood is grounds for a DQ.  Is it upheld everytime?  Probably not.  Thanks for breaking down the problem for the smaller outfits.  I can understand that.  I\'m not trying to be a purist.  But when I first started following racing, in the early 60\'s, I would always go to Arlington Park.  They still had cheap claimers running and no meds were supposedly allowed on raceday.  Did they just test the stakes races back then?

[Flighted Iron]

Footlick,

  It sounds very hypocritical to me. It\'s ok to train with Lasix,but taboo to
race with it? I looked into the archives more specifically last years breeders cup. I went up to and through the 2yr boys grass mile. 20 euro/foreign entrants
and 75% used Lasix. From what i\'ve read/heard from experts i\'m 100% for the use
of Lasix.


Flighted Iron

[Footlick]

When Miss Alleged was a 4 yr old, the rumor in Europe was that she was bleeding. Since the automatic use of Lasix wasn\'t permitted for Euros at that time in the US, if I remember correctly, she was shipped over here to run in a race and bleed so that she could run on Lasix for the BC.  Euros want to use it when they are here because they want the same advantages the US horses have and want a level playing field.  No horse can have it in their system in Europe by raceday, so that is their level playing field.  If it is as beneficial as you feel, then they should be lauded for using it in training, which is the only way the are allowed to use it there.  Since so many Euros ship here, when they do they want to run on it, because the American horses are running on it. I can\'t judge if they are hypocritical or not.  When in Rome.......

You have good points.  I\'m just not sold on all the virtues of Lasix.  I\'m sure it has made it easier to try to control the issue.  I guess I see the trend of our society overmedicating overflowing into other realms.  Maybe my perception is off.

[TGJB]

LASIX.

1-- A major problem right now is that people are conflating the Lasix issue with the real one involving performance enhancers that are being used daily by many top trainers-- this is like living in the projects, with heroin dealers in the stairwells, and trying to ban the sale of beer.

2-- For the most part, racing abroad (as far as I know, anyway) is conducted in more or less rural areas, and here it takes place in or near cities. Air quality is an issue.

3-- As those who have been around long enough can remember, when bleeder drugs were first developed, but before Lasix was listed in the program, it was the wild west-- horses that had been stopping and were 15-1 in the program would go off 5/2 and run off the screen because they had been treated and somebody knew it. The advantage to the current Lasix rules is that it\'s listed in the program. There are other things that can be used and while they are not as effective they will produce dramatic form reversals-- and the public will have no idea it\'s coming because the drug change won\'t be published. That would be serious chaos on a large scale.

4-- When Lasix was first introduced the state vet had to certify horses as bleeders in order for them to run on it. Then, as with everything else involving drugs in this industry, it became too much work/too expensive to do the right way, and they let everyone run on it. I don\'t remember the numbers on this (Sight?), but you could get most horses off Lasix simply by going back to the old rule and using it just on actual bleeders.