Rapid Redux ML 1/9

[TGJB]

Given that one\'s career ended early three and the other\'s started after that, it\'s not exactly oranges to oranges. And I wasn\'t comparing them.

Ruffian did go to Jersey...

[bellsbendboy]

Jimbo I do not know what makes less sense; hating the connections or reasoning Z was not one of the all time greats! bbb

[jimbo66]

Bells,

If that is your logic, I can only wish I was your bookmaker.

It is crystal clear that if Z\'s connections had one testicle amongst them, nobody would be having this debate.  She spent 2 full years in California.  Raced in the same races again and again.  They even refused to go to Saratoga to race in the Personal Ensign against Rachel, when Rachel was a fraction of what she was when she was at her best.  I can hate them and I am sure I am not alone.  Even Z\'s biggest supporters (folks like P-Dub) became very frustrated with her last campaign.

[Boscar Obarra]

Rich Curtis Wrote:
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> Fair enough.
>
>  I guess my points are that Zenyatta accomplished
> more than Ruffian, travelled more than Ruffian,
> faced better competition than Ruffian, and was 12
> lengths faster than Ruffian on the Ragozin Sheets.

 I think we\'re venturing into lala land here. Are you suggesting Zenyatta beats Ruffian by 12 on their best days, say at 1 1/8.

 Say what?

[spa]

How did Ruffian get sucked into this debate? Some of us remember her....

[P-Dub]

jimbo66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bells,
>
> If that is your logic, I can only wish I was your
> bookmaker.
>
> It is crystal clear that if Z\'s connections had
> one testicle amongst them, nobody would be having
> this debate.  She spent 2 full years in
> California.  Raced in the same races again and
> again.  They even refused to go to Saratoga to
> race in the Personal Ensign against Rachel, when
> Rachel was a fraction of what she was when she was
> at her best.  I can hate them and I am sure I am
> not alone.  Even Z\'s biggest supporters (folks
> like P-Dub) became very frustrated with her last
> campaign.

Jimbo,

Absolutely correct.  

I hated her campaign.  I still think that despite that, she is one of the greats.  Strictly my opinion.  I don\'t feel that performance figures determine which horses are great either.

Some of her biggest detractors, many on this forum, gave her respect after her final race.  It was well deserved.  I think that despising the connections, and putting her amongst the greats, can be mutually exclusive.

[Sandreadis]

That crunching and groaning heard 'round the North American racing world this week was the sound of fans and media bending over backwards in an attempt to place the 20-race win streak of Rapid Redux into sensible context.

So let's get the qualified encomiums out of the way up front. Rapid Redux has found a stage upon which he can perform, race after race, at the pinnacle of his talents. Where those talents fit in the big picture is grist for debate – no one is suggesting he's playing La Scala, or Tanglewood, or even Off-Off Broadway – but certainly he deserves high praise for his extended success in a sport that offers far more ways to lose than win.

In his case, the chances for losing have been reduced by the level of competition he faces. He is clearly blessed with a sound and healthy constitution that must be the envy of horsemen everywhere. And in the true spirit of a pack leader, his success has helped pay for the ongoing upkeep of lesser horses owned by Robert Cole.

A dedicated skeptic might look at the pedigree of Rapid Redux and wonder why he hasn't achieved more, at least in terms of quality. As a son of Pleasantly Perfect he comes from a powerful sire line tracing in short order to Ribot, one of the breed's Big Daddies. The female family of Rapid Redux kicks off with mares by Storm Cat, Tom Rolfe (by Ribot), and Forli, and ends up wandering around in the same gene pool that gave us Northern Dancer, Halo, Tosmah, Cannonade and Stephan's Oddysey.

It's a tough game, though. Sometimes you can breed the best to the best and come up with nothing more than a headstrong saddle pony. Rapid Redux, for all the hopes and dreams his bloodlines might have encouraged, has been an over-achiever by most reasonable measures, eminently worthy of his locally heroic status. He can't help it if hungry bloggers trolling for comments and track publicists desperate for site hits have elevated his achievements beyond reason.

Blame it on the suggestive power of raw numbers, and the quick-twitch intellect of the human species that has been trained on smoke signals, telegrams, headlines, texts, and tweets. Detached from the reality they represent, numbers of scale – 20, 100, 1,000 – take on a self-justifying life of their own as in, "He must have done something good. He did it 20 times!"

No one has made a case that Rapid Redux could warm up Zenyatta, Cigar, Buckpasser, or any of the other win-streaky names in the history of the sport. But there they are anyway, popping up in the same paragraphs, conflating away as if the achievements somehow relate.

His justifiably proud trainer, David Wells, did not help matters much when he said, in the wake of RR's 20th straight last Monday at Charles Town, "We're still eyeing Citation's record."

I hope they enjoy the view.

The "record" to which Wells referred is the 19 wins of Citation in 1948, when he started 20 times. Rapid Redux, in the midst of his 20-race winning streak, has 18 of them in 2011.

Beyond the coincidence of the numbers involved, the only thing any records Citation and Rapid Redux would have in common is the fact that they were established in a counter-clockwise direction. Let's set aside for a moment the piddling string of bargain basement starter allowance races won by Rapid Redux – and bless those racing secretaries for magically making those races fill – and take a moment to unpack the career of Big Cy, who made his first start for Ben and Jimmy Jones on April 22, 1947.

Citation won his first five starts then finished second to Calumet stablemate Bewitch (a Hall of Famer in the making) in the 1947 Washington Park Futurity. Citation won his next seven starts and then lost the 1948 Chesapeake Trial in the mud at Havre de Grace to Saggy, who later sired Hall of Famer Carry Back. To date: 14 starts, 12 wins, 2 seconds. Not bad.

On April 17, 1948, five days after his loss in the Trial, Citation won the Chesapeake Stakes by 4 1/2 lengths and followed with 14 more victories that year. The streak included the Triple Crown, the American Derby, the Jersey Derby, the Jockey Club Gold Cup, and a walkover in the Pimlico Special. Among the major stakes winners Citation beat that year were Delegate, Vulcan's Forge, Phalanx, Better Self, Eternal Reward, First Flight and his Hall of Fame stablemates Coaltown and Armed.

After that, Citation needed a year off to deal with ankle and tendon issues. He did not lose again until Jan. 26, 1950, when he was beaten a neck by Miche in an overnight handicap at Santa Anita. The fact that Miche went on to win the Santa Anita Handicap two years later was of little consolation to most fans, who thought Citation's streak would go on forever. But those closest to him knew better, including the man who did the vet work for the California division of the Calumet stable, Dr. Jack Robbins.

"He was still very good, but he wasn't the horse he was as a 3-year-old," Robbins said this week from his home in Rancho Santa Fe. "He had a low bow, and Jimmy Jones managed him pretty well. Dealing with that bow, all he could do was keep him in ice packs and be careful how many times he ran."

Citation made 15 more appearances in 1950 and 1951, which included a memorable cluster of tough beats while giving weight to a future Hall of Famer, Noor. He retired with a victory 60 years ago in the Hollywood Gold Cup as the game's first millionaire, having won 32 races, finished second 10 times and third twice in 45 starts.

But then, those are just numbers.


 Jay Hovdey DRF

[Rich Curtis]

Boscar Obarra wrote:

  \"I think we\'re venturing into lala land here. Are you suggesting Zenyatta beats Ruffian by 12 on their best days, say at 1 1/8.\"

  These are Ragozin\'s numbers. All I\'m doing is quoting them. I\'m using them for this because TG was not around when Ruffian raced. Ruffian had a Rags top of 5, and she was running 7s before the match race. The 12 lengths is based on taking their tops and placing them at 10F. Cutting it to 9F would shave the margin slightly. Oh, and the flag was planted in la-la land about 25 months ago.

[sekrah]

Been away, just got a chance to catch up with this thread and got a good laugh at all the Z worshippers flapping in the wind about their paper champion.

Haha good stuff guys, keep it.  

Funny that they are all getting worked up about Rapid Redux getting press for his winning streak and the non-racing fans who will mistakenly think RR is a great horse from setting the record.  When infact, it is their horse with the endless fraudulant press clippings that has fooled the casual fan.

Zenyatta is, and always will be, the most overrated, overhyped horse in the history of the game.  That\'s a fact that will never change (unless another kid-glove protected, luckbox animal captures the public\'s imagination).

[plasticman]

The biggest knock from Z\'s detractors is that Z \'beat nothing\' in most of her races. I don\'t hear that same knock against Ruffian. In fact, Ruffian is considered \'racing royalty\' by many of the same people who don\'t consider Zenyatta racing royalty. If you are one of the people who consider Ruffian \'racing royalty\' and don\'t hold Z in the same regard, i\'d love to hear your stance on this.

Thanks.

[P-Dub]

sekrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been away, just got a chance to catch up with this
> thread and got a good laugh at all the Z
> worshippers flapping in the wind about their paper
> champion.
>
> Haha good stuff guys, keep it.  
>
> Funny that they are all getting worked up about
> Rapid Redux getting press for his winning streak
> and the non-racing fans who will mistakenly think
> RR is a great horse from setting the record.  When
> infact, it is their horse with the endless
> fraudulant press clippings that has fooled the
> casual fan.
>
> Zenyatta is, and always will be, the most
> overrated, overhyped horse in the history of the
> game.  That\'s a fact that will never change
> (unless another kid-glove protected, luckbox
> animal captures the public\'s imagination).


We appreciate you giving your opinion. Please refrain from using the word \"fact\" when giving your opinion.

Its funny how you say others get worked up, when post after post on this subject from Sekrah displays a fan feverishly pecking at his keyboard, who just can\'t fathom why others don\'t see it his way.  

\"Haha good stuff, keep it up\"??

Thats what a lot of people say about you. Thanks for the laugh today.

And for those of you, including JB, who love to say that I have to chime in whenever someone disagrees with me??  I think Slick Rick specifically mentioned Z and Mike Smith.

At least I\'m doing so in support of someone or something, appreciating their accomplishments. (Like that awful Mike Smith, anybody know how many BC races that guy has won in his career??

Unlike guys like this, and others, who bemoan the accomplishments of horses and jockeys.  Then in the next breath, complain about racing\'s downfall and the ongoing downward spiral of the sport.

Must be a wonderful existence, being bitter of another\'s accomplishments.

So Rick, Sekrah and others....keep up the good fight.  JB has your back.  I\'m sure I\'ll get admonished yet again for chiming in every time someone disagrees with me,

[sekrah]

What accomplishments to be bitter about?  I might be bitter about the hype this phoney horse has received, but that\'s only because I support other, much greater horses who many new casual fans have no idea about (Such as Skip Away).

I do not apologize for supporting true greatness while outing phoney, media created pretenders like Zenyatta.

[Rick B.]

P-Dub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Must be a wonderful existence, being bitter of
> another\'s accomplishments.

I\'m *suspicious* of many of Zenyatta\'s Grade-I-in-name-only conquests. Bitter? Your word, and your affliction.

> So Rick, Sekrah and others....keep up the good
> fight.  JB has your back.  I\'m sure I\'ll get
> admonished yet again for chiming in every time
> someone disagrees with me,

IMO, you get admonished because you have a habit of being disrespectful of anyone that doesn\'t agree with you. You can disagree with someone without making it into a personal attack.
 
That said, it\'s no major sin to laugh off my opinions -- I\'m merely a handicapper, a bettor, a racing fan...but saying that \"JB has my back\" -- as if he would just back up any lame-assed opinion I might suggest? That\'s pretty damned condescending.

The man feeds his family by advising his clients on the purchase of some pretty expensive horseflesh -- with impressive results. What do YOU do in this industry that I or anyone else should favor your opinions about the relative \"greatness\" of any horse over his?

[bellsbendboy]

Sekrah

What is \"phoney\" about winning 19 of 20, a pair of breeders cup races and millions of dollars?

By the way Skipaway lost twenty races!  bbb

[P-Dub]

Rick B. Wrote:
> What do YOU do in this industry that I or anyone else should
> favor your opinions about the relative \"greatness\"
> of any horse over his?


You don\'t have to favor my opinion.

And if \"doing things in the industry\" is a prerequisite for commenting on a forum, then you and 99% of the people here shouldn\'t offer any comments.