Clueless Clowns at it again!

[TGJB]

The boycott certainly made a difference. So did OTB closing, and (for example) SA having 51 horses entered last Fri or Sat-- before scratches.

[jma11473]

The average field size at Santa Anita decreased slightly but was basically the same as last year, so while the fields are always small there it\'s not a new factor that would suddenly make people stop betting. The boycott was new. The surface change, okay, maybe I\'d buy that as a factor, except like Rich Curtis said, Santa Anita said handle would skyrocket due to the return to dirt---instead it plummeted.

The boycott was a major topic on Pace Advantage and the HANA website. It did have a lot of backers---and apparently had some sort of effect. Obviously it wasn\'t the only factor, but when CA handle drops 20 percent while competing tracks do better, doesn\'t that at least say something? As horseplayers, we should all STRONGLY hope the tracks noticed the boycott and believe it was real, as it might actually give us a voice the next time a state wants to raise takeout.

[TGJB]

A couple of things have already happened with takeout (the new low takeout pick 5\'s at CRC and Hol), and more are on the way. As I said a few days ago, the invisible hand has started smacking some sense into the industry.

[sighthound]

I laughed.  Best description I\'ve heard, evah - especially the Martin Pedroza part.

[Rick B.]

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Miff was \"certain\" the boycott was working
>
>
> Rick,
>
> \"certain\" ...kinda early to be drinking, never
> used that word.
>
> Mike

Mike, you are correct.

There was a slight level of smugness to your comments about the boycott \"working\" that I translated as certainty on your part. That\'s my explanation. Doesn\'t make me any less wrong, though. I\'ll try to be more careful.

[Rick B.]

Rich Curtis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rick,
>
>   I posted a link to the boycott website right
> here on December 27th. That was as far as I felt I
> should go on this board. The center of boycott
> talk was--and is--Paceadvantage.com. There was
> also a lot of activity on the Paulick Report, much
> of it involving fighting between Paulick and the
> boycotters. And of course the HANA website had a
> lot of stuff. The DRF had a little, which was a
> little more than one might have expected. And
> Crist mentioned the boycott in a column.
>
> Regarding the cause and effect of boycotts and
> handle: There is very little that I hate more than
> the misuse of cause and effect. Therefore, I\'m not
> going to go any further than this:
>
>  1: I personally know a lot of people who
> boycotted SA specifically because of the takeout
> increase. I\'m one of them.
>
>  2: SA had high expectations before the meet
> began. The meet was a debacle. If SA had it to do
> over again, I don\'t think SA would have allowed
> any of its people to publicly laugh at the idea of
> a boycott.
>
>  3: Please listen to the Byk interview that I
> mentioned yesterday. That interview needs to be
> heard to be believed.
>
>  4: Did you, Rick, really bet more money at SA
> last year, on synthetic, than you did this year,
> on real dirt? This is the type of question that
> further complicates the cause and effect--though
> from the opposite direction. A lot of people were
> predicting an explosion of betting once SA
> returned to real dirt. What happened to it?

I\'ll address item 4 first: it was pretty hard to bet less on SA dirt races this year than I did on SA syn last year, because I bet almost nothing on it last year -- I hate that shit. That goes double for the poly at AP, TP & Kee.

That said, I hate short fields even more, simply because there is no value there for me.

High takeout? Don\'t care. If it\'s my kind of race, I\'ll beat the take, in the short-term and over the long haul; if it\'s not my kind of race, the takeout rate might as well be 100%. My job is to stay the hell away from races that don\'t suit my handicapping capabilities. 12% rolling pick-3\'s at Sam Houston are nice, but the PP\'s for that track might as well be in Chinese -- I can\'t figure the damn thing out.
 
Rich, your cause is noble, and if you and your cohorts succeed in getting the takeout lowered at SA, God bless you -- all of us that play that track will benefit in some way.

I will point out that in order for a boycott to be really effective, the word will have to get out to more than just PA and HANA -- did you know that there are over 30 North American racing oriented Internet forums out there? PA just completed their first season of an Internet forum handicapping league, and there were 50 -- yes, \"five - oh\" -- teams. (A few forums were allowed more than one team if they had tons of members.)

Anyway, good luck. That I don\'t believe SA and other tracks don\'t give a rat\'s ass what us bettors think or do, doesn\'t mean everyone should be so sour. I\'ll be watching for those changes JB keeps mentioning -- please God may I have some sort of sign that racing isn\'t the dead number I think it is, or will be shortly. I\'d love to be wrong about this.

[Einstein66]

well said, Shanahan. That\'s the same question I\'ve asked myself so many times. \"Why aren\'t they listening to the horseplayer?\" Why?

[Rick B.]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A couple of things have already happened with
> takeout (the new low takeout pick 5\'s at CRC and
> Hol), and more are on the way.

Consider these numbers:
$87.55  $3.85

$73.30  $3.20

$101.85 $4.45

* Horseplayers were cheering the low 14% takeout that accompanies the new Pick 5 bet at Hollywood. I wonder how much cheering there was when the first set of numbers (above) were posted at Hollywood last night after the 5th race: those are the Pick 5 payouts for 5 of 5, and the 4 of 5 conso, respectively.

* The second set of numbers represent last night\'s 5 of 5, and 4 of 5 conso payouts IF the take had been a more \"egregious\" 28%. Call it semantics, but getting $87 for picking 5 of 5 vs. $73, and seeing this as some sort of victory for the player is missing the big picture, IMO. Is that why we play the Pick N\'s -- to grind out $14 additional dollars?

* The third set of numbers, as you might have already guessed, is last night\'s Pick 5 payout from Hollywood if the takeout were ZERO.

Sorry. While I like lower pricing as much as everybody else, we just won a very small battle with \"lower takeout\"...while our handicapping efforts (and our bankrolls) continue to be diluted by short, uncompetitive fields.

We are looking at the wrong thing. You all want to boycott something? Boycott short fields. Stop rewarding these tracks for carding crap races with 2 competitors and 4 fillers. If I see another $6 exacta, I think I might puke. Lower takeout doesn\'t turn $6 exactas into $18 exactas...but larger fields do!

[Rich Curtis]

Rick B wrote:

\"Sorry. While I like lower pricing as much as everybody else, we just won a very small battle with \"lower takeout\"...while our handicapping efforts (and our bankrolls) continue to be diluted by short, uncompetitive fields.
We are looking at the wrong thing. You all want to boycott something? Boycott short fields. Stop rewarding these tracks for carding crap races with 2 competitors and 4 fillers. If I see another $6 exacta, I think I might puke. Lower takeout doesn\'t turn $6 exactas into $18 exactas...but larger fields do!\"

I don\'t think organized boycotts are a good idea unless you\'ve got a clear way forward. With takeout, horseplayers can say \"Lower the takeout or we\'ll make you pay,\" and the people in charge can decide to capitulate and lower the takeout. With field size, on the other hand, well, racetracks have known for a long time that small field size kills handle. Bettors have been informally boycotting small fields forever. I even handicap races in field-size order, more or less, starting with the biggest fields and stopping with no guilt as soon as I get tired. The people in charge wish right now that they had bigger field sizes. Therefore, if you pressure them further on this, you open the door to a bunch of nasty unintended consequences that may or may not turn out to be worth accepting.

As for your point about the exacta payoffs, it reminds me of a TV commercial Los Alamitos used to run. You see 10 horses racing each other and then crossing the finish line. Then the camera cuts to the crowd and every single person is smiling and clapping. One wonders, possibly something is missing here?

[miff]

Clueless clowns at NYRA at it again.The failure of at least 6 NYC Sports Bars/OTB type restaurants(pre OTB shutdown) that I know of make this a perfect fit for NYRA.They can\'t even run racing properly, so now it\'s this capital intensive, high operating costs venture they \"could\" be thinking of. Makes perfect sense.They\'ll be looking for a bailout before you know it.Incidentally, would be surprised if Charlie is unaware of the possibly new 12 franchise type super OTB\'S/Sports Bar/Restaurants that Albany may be awarding to private enterprise. I\'d suspect if they did, they may revoke NYRA\'s present on the books authority to open 8(?) of these.

BRILLIANT Charlie!!



DRF:

\"As NYRA expands gaming at Aqueduct, its simulcasting at Belmont Park, and its account wagering business via phone and Internet, Hayward also hinted that NYRA could be interested in the sports bar market as a means to increase off-track betting in New York City.

"We don't need legislative approval, but we need approval from the mayor and City Council," Hayward said. "It's too early. It won't be betting parlors. We want to go in the restaurant and sports bar business\"

[TGJB]

You\'re assuming they would be similar to the previous teletheaters in Manhattan, owned and operated by NYRA. Could be windows set up in existing operations, which would not require much capital.

[miff]

Yes JB,

The only way to get the lions share of the pie,for NYRA,would be to own and operate. An interesting idea being floated in to have hundreds of betting type terminals all over the borough(like cash machines)

Incidentally, was close the owners to 2 Restaurant/Sport Bar OTB\'s, one in Staten Island that went under.

Favorites at Woodbridge in NJ seems to be financially successful.


Mike

[HP]

I was at Aqueduct on Friday for the first time in years, and I would say they need to follow through and finish working on the plant before they move on to other endeavors.  There is SO much work to do there.  The entire structure is covered with rot, rust and peeling paint everywhere.  So it is indeed a little jarring to hear this guy talk about \"restaurants\" at this point.  It\'s like listening to my kids talk about what they\'re going to do when they grow up and I have to say \"that\'s great, now go clean up your room.\"  First things first.  

I see glimmers of hope - there was a decent crowd, a few races with more than four horses, and overall I had a nice day.  I just want them to make it a nice place with slot machines instead of a dump...with slot machines.  I don\'t need chandeliers, but hopefully when the place quiets down when Belmont opens they will hire some guys with scrapers to go around and clean the joint up.  There are parts of the place that look like they have not been looked at or fixed in decades.  Really a shame, because it could be GREAT.  HP

[miff]

HP,

Word is that the Genting Group, a total first class operation, looking to solidify it\'s position in the NY/US Gaming Market and will spare no expense.We\'ll see.


Mike

[HP]

Genting Group would be great...but really there are places where all that\'s required is a garden hose and some ammonia and I can\'t understand why they don\'t do that?  

I was with a few guys, not racetrack regular types and not fusspots, and we were looking around spotting things, just basics that were awful and had clearly not been addressed at all since the last century.  

When you walk out the door of the clubhouse to go stand out by the finish line to watch them come in...the paint and plaster chips come down on your head!  Layers and sheets of the old stuff is just hanging there waiting to fall.  

I\'ll tell you...I would volunteer to go in there with 10 guys and some paint and basic tools and in a day or two the place would look ten times better.  It\'s just an embarrasment...and re-reading what this \"clueless clown\" said, it\'s obvious that he does not walk around the Big A or he would be addressing this instead of his wish list for expansion.  He should get out there with some of these other execs on a weekend and do some real man\'s work instead of yakking about dreamland.  

HP