got a kick out of this...

[jumpnthefire]

Triple crown  [quote rag=]... In our view, thoroughbred racing's Triple Crown is a tradition that was fine 50 years ago when, as horse people say with rare irony, horses ran on hay and oats. It is a dangerous grind in this era of chemically high-tech, high-powered training. But the five-week event puts tremendous pressure on owners and trainers to run their horses even when they suspect they shouldn't. The racing authorities make much of the fact that the Triple Crown brings out the crowds and the money and helps keep the sport alive. The pull of tradition and the media attention can be irresistible. We suggested that Big Brown pass on the Preakness last year but he ran. And he won. Then he pulled up short in the Belmont and his racing career faded away.

With the heavy weight of evidence in our 50-year data base of thoroughbred performance to back us up we want to state the blunt truth: The Triple Crown is good for neither the horses nor the sport of racing. ... [/quote]

[richiebee]

Jump:

Of course you are quoting the \"Lens\" in The New York Times. First, a
brief word about the Times, the so called newspaper of record. The
Times has fallen on hard times, and in a move which many are calling
suicidal, has raised the newstand price of their publication to $2.00 per day.

The Times, once the gold standard of print journalism, now devotes
nearly an entire page DAILY to errata and apologies.

Perhaps most infuriating, the Times still insists on calling
everbody \"Mr.\", as in \"Mr. Stalin, who is responsible for the deaths of over 60
million people...\" or \"Mr. Dahmer, who dismembered his girlfriend and used her
bones for soup stock in his East Village kitchen...\"

Lets talk about a real newspaper. For 50 cents, the New York Post. While
I was dozing off on the public conveyance carting me grudgingly to my Monday
labor,I caught the following headline in rather large letters \"GURU GETS IT
RIGHT\". The subhead \"Thoro- Graph president gave spot-on analysis of Belmont\"

Kerrison is an Australian journalist who followed the racetrack on a daily basis
in his younger years; given this curriculum vitae I would imagine he enjoys the
occasional drink; I guess one\'s never too old to start enjoying Kool- Aid.

[miff]

Bee,

Lots of Kool Aid drinkers out there.If I tell you how many times the Rags guys have given \"the last rites\" to a fast performer(BIG BROWN after FL derby) it\'s comical. Like the snake oil salesman of days past, they take the obvious and spin it.Re injuries,law of averages in racing catches up with many runners eventually.

You probably know that many trainers will tell that it\'s surprising that many more horses do not get injured during a racing career.

There were no less than 5 nice stake type horses go bad just last week, none had run extremely fast. These guys just dont know how to spell R-A-N-D-O-M or really don\'t have a clue what goes on every day, at all levels of racing.

Mike


P.S. Dunkirk out with a Condylar fracture, another one who never ran excessively fast.

[magicnight]

Two zeros by March is pretty fast, Miff, if not \"excessively\" so. And he ran pretty hard for 12 furlongs saturday. But you know best, of course. I\'m sure it was just random.

[miff]

Magic,

Yes,that was a pretty fast pair for a young horse. I thought he was knocked out by the two Florida races.The point is that some will tell you that what happened in March,is relevant to the injury in June but Plethcher/attending vet were clueless. The Kool Aid drinkers will say \"see I told ya\" and will spin this injury for sure.

Guys believe that QR\'s quarter crack had something to do with how FAST he ran, BRILLIANT!

Mike

[martoon]

Are any of these Unbridled\'s Song\'s making it to race as 5 year olds or even 4 yo?  Wow are they fragile..

[HP]

It\'s all about stress during growth.  Age is a big variable here.  It\'s entirely possible that the injury to Dunkirk had its origins in March.  It\'s got nothing to do with Kool Aid.  

You realize of course that Dunkirk\'s races in March would put him in the top 1% in terms of speed relative to all thoroughbreds at that age.

Another obvious point is that Dunkirk could not talk to Pletcher and the vet and say \"hey I have a little pain here.\"  With horses you are at a disadvantage sometimes because you don\'t always know what\'s going on until an injury fully manifests itself.  

Overall Miff you are as guilty of generalizing as much as the other side.  If drinking this particular brand of Kool Aid helps owners and trainers be a little more cautious I think that\'s a good thing.  I wouldn\'t go as far as throwing out the whole Triple Crown format...but that\'s another can of worms.  

HP

[miff]

It\'s all about stress during growth. Age is a big variable here. It\'s entirely possible that the injury to Dunkirk had its origins in March. It\'s got nothing to do with Kool Aid.

HP,

That is possible.The people with real expertise,Team Pletcher and Equine Vet Team that tend to this horse every day probably would have detected something lingering from March.The Kool Aid drinkers have no expertise with equine health and just deal in inane/unscientific speculation.In every case they have never even laid eyes on the animal, yet pronounce them ready for impending disaster,VOODOO!

Spoken to many vets over the years and respect their knowledge,if echoing their sentiments is generalizing,fine.It is always randomly possible for the Kool Aid drinker to be right but for all the wrong reasons.Even a broken clock is right twice a day!


Mike

[TGJB]

Richie-- the East Village guy was a different homicidal maniac, not Dahmer-- our guy was one and done, don\'t think Dahmer would have been able to last that long with New Yorkers.

And at least the Times prints corrections. BUT-- yeah, Kerrison is a good guy. Always looking for a contrarian angle, and I\'m Mr. Contrarian. I\'ve learned how to be the Human Quote Machine.

Miff-- my offer stands, terms of the bet in the earlier post. If it\'s random you have a huge edge. On the \"experts\" who know better since they are with the horse-- you don\'t know how many times trainers have told me the problem was mental when I insisted it was physical, and an injury showed up a race or two later. Usually too late to prevent real problems. The nuclear scans are helping a little in that regard. I had one old time trainer thank me profusely for insisting he scan the horse after he said nothing was wrong-- a hairline fracture showed up, if the filly had run back she would have been done. Her name is My Three Sisters, we gave her some time and she won a stake, placed in several others, and earned something like 300k after that.

I\'ve discussed that scurrilous Times piece by you-know-who before in this space. The idea of stretching out the TC has been put forward on TV and in print by yours truly since at least the early 90\'s, and by many others before that and since. But what really stinks about what they did is the attempt to attach themselves to Rachel-- 50 years from now someone will do a search for her in the paper of record, and Ragozin\'s name will pop up. They had NOTHING to do with her. We have sued in Kentucky to try to get paid for our contribution, it\'s gotten a little coverage, hopefully it will get more..

[miff]

JB,

The \"experts\",I have listened to, say that most injuries are random and unpredictable, bad step/landing etc etc, a pure occupational hazard for these athletes.

Every horse in training is likely to incur one,in the 90 percentile,sooner or later,some minor,some severe.

Don\'t recall the bet but if you really have the ability to call an injury without any vet like expertise and without seeing/examining the horse,thats an industry scoop.Fire all the vets,hire you!


Mike

[Dudley]

martoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are any of these Unbridled\'s Song\'s making it to
> race as 5 year olds or even 4 yo?  Wow are they
> fragile..

USong is a fragile bloodline. I wouldn\'t touch one.
Old Fashioned was another US that didn\'t make it past the preps.
They are several others if you look back.

[jumpnthefire]

captain bodget another one of my fav unbridleds

[dannyboy135]

I along with a group of horsemen tried to syndicate Old Fashioned and bring him to Louisiana.  fortunately or unfortunately, the deal couldn\'t be put together. Louisiana breeders need not only a credential ed stallion but one whose foals will remain sound and produce breeders awards. While at the time I was tremendously disappointed it may have been a blessing to miss the Old Fashioned opportunity.

Also couldn\'t help but pitch in on Miff\'s comments regarding jb\'s ability to diagnose unsoundness without the benefit of radio- graphs.  Mike I agree! I\'ve got great respect and admiration for Jb\'s abilities but I think he is  s t re t c h i n g....

[coachbowlin]

Captain Bodgit is by Saint Ballado, not Unbridled.

[HP]

You guys are too much.  No one is trying to diagnose unsoundness.  Only trying to point out that the stress of top efforts over a short period of time could put some stress on a horse and lead to an injury.  It\'s no different from any other sport!

As just one example, if you have a pitcher, and he throws a complete game and you bring him back on three days rest, he may not do so well...and he could also blow out his arm.  Judging from your posts, you guys are completely incapable of digesting what every Little Leaguer in the US could recite chapter and verse.  Are you saying doctors or vets in sports medicine are unaware of this?  This is a NEW concept for you?!?  Do you follow sports at all?!?  

The idea that you need to be a doctor or a vet to understand this is preposterous, but given the level of miff\'s posts on this I\'m inclined to just give up.  Plus no one is making a general rule and I\'m sure JB would agree you need to analyze this on an individual basis.  

Have it your way.  I like my Kool Aid on the rocks!  

HP